DC Gold

[Pokemonfan13]

I think potions that temporarily produce a previous dressup would be good as PART of the currency back to the cave system, but not enough for everything.

 

[i still don't support, I just have the bad habit of thinking "IF it was going to happen it should be like ____"]

[sparkdragon]

....in an endless cycle that simply transfers gold between players.

 

...what good is all that gold if the only people who have something you want refuse to sell and will only trade?

 

...any proposed "reward" would likely receive no support from the majority of the vocal userbase since we don't want DC to become a generic petsite, so it would make coming up with an alternate use of the "gold" considerably harder.

This this, this was what I was thinking and why I was confused about the suggested currency system to begin with. It's like, inherently meant to fail.

 

Since everyone is in this game for the dragons, there is no reason why people would even want to sell dragons for gold. The supply of gold there is would overrun the actual demand for it in trades. In petsites, currency is there because there are things you can obtain only through it. If the point here is to allow the newer players/bad catchers a chance at some rarer dragons or ones they cannot get on their own, they can hoard gold but who would want to trade dragons for it? The people with rares will want to trade for other rares and whatever other dragons they need directly, what's the point of getting gold when there may not be any chance to use it? Gold would be an extraneous in-between step. If the traders are willing to take gold for their dragons, it's practically akin to gifting, something which is already very much part of the culture in DC.

 

ETA: I'm neither for nor against having a currency system. The problem here would mainly be finding a way to spend the gold that does not involve egg creation AND would be tempting enough for users to want to trade dragons to collect it.

Edited November 3, 2012 by sparkdragon

[Obscure_Trash]

What about a currency system to get outfits for the dragons? We already have Halloween and Christmas outfits. And I wouldn't mind having a game to earn coins to buy my blacks their halloween outfit for a few days.

Now this is cute and perhaps more doable than the other suggestion to see the old costumes (which is a new skin), but not actually sure about that. As someone who doesn't enjoy dressing up her pets on any game (or in real life, lol), this wouldn't effect me but would allow those who wanted the dress ups to get them back for a bit.

 

I don't want currency in any way, so IMO currency, if added, should be completely optional, just like suggestions of battling, hoarding, searching, exploring, and all the BSAs meant to give people something extra to do.

Edited November 3, 2012 by SockPuppet Strangler

[pinkieseb]

@Ice_SW

Make your own suggestion thread! I'd love that! Although I might not use it often others might!

[Rosedamai]

You get currency by raising cb common/uncommon/rares. You get 10gd for raising a common, 20 for uncommon, and 40 for rares. You can only get currency from non-cb commons to which you will receive 5gd.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

 

As I have told time and time again on the thread, there are those of us who do not trade or when we do the rate is so negligent that it could be counted as nothing.

 

I will have no money at all.

 

No breeding=getting money please.

[Snowytoshi]

Now this is cute and perhaps more doable than the other suggestion to see the old costumes (which is a new skin), but not actually sure about that. As someone who doesn't enjoy dressing up her pets on any game (or in real life, lol), this wouldn't effect me but would allow those who wanted the dress ups to get them back for a bit.

 

I don't want currency in any way, so IMO currency, if added, should be completely optional, just like suggestions of battling, hoarding, searching, exploring, and all the BSAs meant to give people something extra to do.

The problem with money is it gradually becomes mandatory, simply because you have to use it in order to trade since that's all anyone will accept.

[Obscure_Trash]

The problem with money is it gradually becomes mandatory, simply because you have to use it in order to trade since that's all anyone will accept.

Except using it to get eggs isn't optional as dragons are DC is dragons. I am talking strictly optional uses, so this would have nothing to do with trading.

[Cinnamin Draconna]

Thing is, those 'optional' uses are too much like pet sites, which isn't what we want.

 

And we're not asking for 'spontaneous creation' eggs either. We're asking for something that would make trading a little easier. Something that we EARN for raising our dragons, then being able to use those earnings to obtain more dragons in trade.

 

It would be optional in a sense. With a cap on the earnings, the amount in use wouldn't get astronomical.. and if you don't want to accept currency in trade you don't have to. But those of us who would like to use it could.

 

If a rule was put in place along the lines of... "It is against the rules to demand the use of currency in trading. Trading with currency must be agreed to by both parties." ... I think that might help.

[Pokemonfan13]

The only way I could even get to neutral about it is if it was possible for it to not REPLACE egg-egg trading, and I can't imagine that happening.

 

Either not enough people accept currency because they don't want to participate in a currency economy for dragons or they don't trust that they'll be able to buy what they want with it and it fails because eventually it spirals to nobody taking currency.

 

Or everyone accepts currency and because currency transactions would be quicker than egg transactions [because you're not limited to the people who have the egg you're looking for] the trades wouldn't be around long enough to find someone who has the egg you're looking for who wants what you have, the egg would have already bought with currency.

 

You can't have "some people accept currency" without introducing the instability that comes with uncertainty as to being able to spend it to buy what you want. This is a situation where there are two end results: nobody take currency and you might as well not have had it in the first place, or everybody takes currency and egg-egg trading dies.

 

 

 

And Sock, this thread is about money to buy dragons with from other users. Any discussion about what else to do with it is referencing the necessary money sink that needs to be there to keep the economy stable. Any "totally optional" money system should probably be a different thread.

Edited November 4, 2012 by Pokemonfan13

[Pokemonfan13]

Uh, master, that's already been discussed for most of this thread. Buying from an NPC is spontaneous egg creation and is extremely unlikely.

[master125]

So, I go and edit my mistake and press delete instead, really sorry 'bout that.

But anyways, here's a random list of powers you can buy.

• choose a code for an egg you breed

• make a cool down shorter

• next summon/bite/EQ/influence success rate higher

• temporary ad removal

 

Other:

• new scroll skins

• lottery ticket (event: random person wins an egg, happens weekly)

 

Maybe a limit in spending per day/week/etc?

[PointOfOrigin]

Don't know about first three points, but:

 

~ We already have add removal. Yes, you have to pay for it, but right now that is the most secure source of money from the site, and I doubt anyone would undermine it for a game currency.

 

~ Last point: no spontaneous egg creation.

[Dolphinsong]

Totally against choose a code as it is way too open for abuse when people can use swear words as part of it. There are even swear words in other languages that they can use that would fit within the 5 character limit and even shortened versions of them. Codes are randomly assigned, and only TJ should have the power to create a custom code.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Totally against choose a code as it is way too open for abuse when people can use swear words as part of it. There are even swear words in other languages that they can use that would fit within the 5 character limit and even shortened versions of them. Codes are randomly assigned, and only TJ should have the power to create a custom code.

TJ himself allowed a Tinsel owner to have the worst curse of all as a code, though... e____e

Not supporting, just saying.

[stogucheme]

Okay, I stopped reading around page 10 because most of the people in the thread didn't find the post on page 5 explaining how the system works and made a lot of arguments against their idea of how it'd work. So please ask questions after this post and I'll try to address them. Let's make this suggestion work for everyone, shall we?

Edit for the above strike through: I've been working on this so long I never want to see it again. I'll probably come back within a day, but until then, I hope y'all can work it out for yourselves.

If this post is now totally irrelevant to the discussion, sorry, but I spent hours on it. Just ignore, please.

 

How The System Works

Updated #2 and #6.

 

1. Some notes:

This is all very complicated in its layout, but relatively easy to navigate for the user. I'll explain how in the last section.

Dragon, when used in discussing the selling system, refers to hatchlings and eggs, not adults. I'm not suggesting that we be able to trade adults.

This system is in addition to trading. It will not replace it.

You will not be able to buy money or obtain it other than described in #2 and #3.

There is no spontaneous egg creation. You buy dragons from other users, not the site.

The following assumes you have the Gold Trophy limits of 7/21 because eventually everyone should have that (unless your playstyle doesn't allow it).

 

2. For every dragon you hatch, you can get 1-2 money. (Changed from Gold since people were complaining about RP stuff. Replace 'money' with whatever.)

Commons give you 2m, and uncommons and rares give you 1m, to encourage blocker raising.

So, I hatch a Neo and a Split. I get 2m for the Neo and 1m for the Split. When they grow up, I don't get any more money. If I abandon after they hatch, I still get the money. If I abandon before they hatch, I don't get any money.

 

Why would you get money for hatching dragons?

Because even if a person just dumped the hatchlings as soon as they hatched, they'd be dumping them into the AP and everybody loves hatchlings. (Go check out the Evil Project.)

If they were just doing it to freeze, well, they still raised them, and that's a valid playstyle.

If they were hatching to sell or trade, they still raised them and again, that's a valid playstyle.

 

3. Once I get 175m, I cannot get any more money from raising dragons. I can get up to 250m through selling, however.

 

Why the extra cash?

To incentivise selling. Before you object to this, Check out how selling works and the caps and such.

 

4. The minimum price for a dragon would be 10m. The maximum price would be 75m. This means that you could buy 2-17 dragons with your regular limit, or 3-25 dragons with the extended limit. (Of course, egg limits won't let you, but that lets you spend an average of 25m or 35m per egg, respectively. Buying 21 hatchlings, 8m and 11m.)

 

Prices could be set by users irrespective of the dragon, but the market will have a suggested price list for CB dragons only. (Since some value messy-gens, and some hate them, and anything beyond CB is hard to calculate. This is to primarily let users decide what they want.)

 

This suggested price list will use the ratios to determine the price of a dragon. For example, if you lined up all the dragons based on availability, with Hollies as most common and Golds as least common, Hollies would have a suggested price of 10m and Golds would have a suggested price of 75m. (Wishful thinking. )

 

5. Users can both sell and bid irrespective of that suggested price list. The maximum bid would be 75m. If a user has auto-sell chosen, and someone bids 75m, they will automatically get that dragon.

 

HOWEVER. To prevent fast buyers from taking all the good stuff and auto-buying everything, the bidding will be open for a period of time. (This is debatable- 5-10 minutes, maybe?) If all the users bid 75m, there will be a random selection of the winning user. (If 9 people bid 75m, and 1 bids 10m, though, that user will not be in the lottery. Just so we're clear.)

 

So how will eggs with less than 7 days be sold? Will they have the same price?

No. The suggested price will increase by 1m per day taken off until the egg becomes an ER. So, it'd be like this:

Egg, 7 days- 10m.

6 days- 11m.

5 days- 12m.

4 days- 13m.

Under 4 days- 13m.

 

Hatchling, 7 days- 14m.

6 days- 15m.

5 days- 16m.

4 days- 17m.

Under 4 days- 17m.

 

Notice that the egg at 4 days is the same price as an egg under 4, just like the hatchling at 4 days is the same as the one under 4.

 

Dragons selling at the cap of 75m will not have their values increase.

 

What about eggs with days and hours left?

The suggested price list will encourage users to price dragons wherever they fall closest but rounding up- so an egg with 6 days, 11 hours left will count as a 6 day egg and an egg with 6 days, 12 hours left will count as a 7 day egg. But again, that's just the suggested value.

 

What about richer players outbidding me?

The cap is at most at 250m. So a player could do the mega 75m bid for 3 dragons, then have to stop. There should also be a cap on how much you can earn per day- maybe 250m max per day? (And if they choose to spend 250m and earn and spend 250m again, they could only outbid you 6 times every 2 days, which is the same amount.)

This is a problem spot- help please? If you can't get more than 250m per day, and you wanted to sell 4x75m dragons, what would happen? Either you couldn't sell the last, have to sell it at a lower price, or you'd get the money tomorrow. The problem with the third is that people could set up an endless money bank. If you couldn't get the money tomorrow, why would players sell their dragons that will get the 75m bid?

 

The reason I can't just lift the 250m cap: Users will get money spontaneously for raising dragons. Inflation and a whole ton of problems will arise if users can get endless money. This is not workable. The only solution may be to live with the cons.

 

How will bidding work?

Users will go to the market. They will use their dragons or money to bid on a dragon. (Just like offers on trades.) If there is a minimum bid set, they cannot bid under that. If the seller wants money or dragons only, the bidder must give those.

Users will NOT be able to combine dragons with money in their bids. This is to prevent out-bidding through rare dragons AND money.

 

6. Money Sinks! Some ideas...

A. This is a feature I'm playing with. If everyone hates it, then that's okay. I just thought it was a nice incentive to get money. I was thinking that you could use money to buy hints as to what the next dragon will be. They'd be little hints, like dragon type or color or a random fact (like the dragon likes avocados). Maybe you could buy no more than 3 (out of 9 possible hints or something). Seem like a fun idea?

B. Doing funny stuff to your scroll. (Painting on it, etc.)

C. Removing egg shells/tombstones, reducing the time they're on the scroll, or removing them from your sight only.

D. Dressing your dragons up in their holiday outfits.

E. Being able to name eggs.

F. Being able to edit your wreaths and trees.

G. Reordering your badges.

H. Reordering your Easter eggs and treats.

I. Being able to "pin" dragons to the scroll.

J. Being able to "hide" dragons on the progeny page. I figure we've got 2 options: either the parent's owner can hide them, or the kid's owner. I think it'd be best if it were both. For example, I have a lineage where all the kids were named according to a theme. I know it was at my own risk to give the egg away, but it bothers me a little that someone broke the pattern. (I don't mean that they were all named "Sam's X," I mean you could read the progeny page's names like a sentence and that was really cool.) Plus, I'm sure whoever gets TJ's dragons' kids wants to keep their eggs un-view-bombed.

K. Get little notifications at the top of your scroll for set things, like Summon. "Your dragons are able to >Summon< again." "Your trade was accepted/rejected." "You have a new offer!"

 

7.

Oh, and as for the RP standpoint, that's easy to fix... MAGIC. Anything is possible with magic. And since the majority of players don't RP, making the game suffer because of it is not worth it in the long run. We're talking about a bunch of little pixel graphics that are not real.. dragons aren't real either.. and trying to make everything realistic is about as logical as poking holes in a cup that you're trying to drink out of. A magical explanation for new changes is all that is needed, and as long as it sounds semi-logical, most players will be able to accept it and enjoy it.. especially if it makes the game better. Games are supposed to be FUN.. something that helps you escape reality for a little while and relax.. denying changes that will make the game more fun for the majority is pure selfishness.

I've got the perfect RP reason! "Your hatchling is so grateful to you for raising it, it gives you a coin from its hoard. Maybe if you raise it to adulthood, it'll give you another."

 

8. This is not complicated because: (The italicized parts are just things I think would be cool. Ignore them and substitute your own idea if you don't like them.)

 

Getting Money:

You go raise dragons. When they hatch, a coin appears like in trick or treating. You click it and get a coin for each that's hatched! (So you don't have to click 7 coins in a row.) You're told that some of your dragons will give you more coins for raising them to adulthood.

 

Buying Dragons

There's a link up top to the market, like the forum link. You click it. You pick, "search for eggs/hatchlings for sale." You narrow it by category. You find what you want. The format is something like this:

(Pretend the image is nice and replace "eggs" with "dragons.") Now, explaining it step by step, the left-hand column is for the dragon's information. There's a link to the lineage.

The right-hand column is for the seller's info. Note that it doesn't list the username. Either I figure that's a toggle on/off option, or it's never listed.

The first two are the things they'll accept and the price they want. "3 eggs" can be replaced by "3 dragons," which means eggs or hatchies, or "3 hatchies," which means hatchies only. If we could, it'd be nice to have a "3 Albino dragons" thing, and possibly some trade notes.

The third thing is DC's suggested price for a CB egg of this type. (This egg may or may not be CB. You can click the lineage to find out.)

"Selling for" lets you know how long you have to bid. (I'm going back and forth on whether or not you can close beforehand- opinons? I think yes...)

"Auto-sell at..." Lets you know what they'd be willing to auto-sell for. Auto-sell dragons will be decided by the seller, unless the seller chooses to accept any dragons. If you bid 25m, for a period after (again, 5-10 minutes?) people can bid 25m, too. Then the lottery will kick in. If you get the egg, your money is transferred and you get the egg.

">MAKE A BID<" is the bidding link. You choose either dragons or money to bid, and bid!

 

So, for the buyer, you have these 4 steps:

1. click market

2. click buy dragons

3. narrow category

4. make bids

 

Making a sale:

For the seller, you have 5-8 steps.

1. Click 'market.'

2. Click 'sell dragons.'

3. Choose 1-4 dragons to sell at once.

4. Choose 1:

-accept M and dragons

-accept M only

-accept dragons only

5. If you choose 1 or 2, there will be a suggested price. Enter a value from 10-75 for each dragon or click 'use suggested prices.' If not, select how many dragons you want.

6, 7, 8. Optional: choose 'sell for' date and if auto-sell will be enabled. If auto-selling, choose an auto-sell price.

Edited November 5, 2012 by stogucheme

[Rosedamai]

TJ himself allowed a Tinsel owner to have the worst curse of all as a code, though... e____e

Not supporting, just saying.

He-who-must-not-be-named! *Gasp*

 

2. For every dragon you raise, you can get 1-2 money. (Changed from Gold since people were complaining about RP stuff. Replace 'money' with whatever.) If you hatch it, you just get 1m. If you raise it, and an adult would have given you 2m, you get 1m more.

Commons give you 2m, and uncommons and rares give you 1m, to encourage blocker raising.

So, I hatch a Neo and a Split. I get 1m for each. When they grow up, I get 1m more for the Neo. A total of 3m.

Not going to address the other points, but again-some people collect certain numbers and don't raise any more. I personally don't want to raise hatchlings just for the lulz in the hopes that I might need the money to buy a holly in the future or whatever.

Edited November 4, 2012 by ylangylang

[demonicvampiregirl]

Honestly any currency for eggs (for trading!) is going to unbalance the game majorly and only be worth it to those who sit for hours on end on DC. Those who play only during new releases, collect very little, prefer only select breds it's going to mess it up for them.

 

Why make the game so unbalanced and unfair for everyone when the system we got now, which isn't perfect, is better than adding any currency? This site is meant to be simple and adding currency for eggs isn't going to keep it simple. It'll become a pet site and that isn't what DC was created to be.

 

If it was something only useful to the player like new skins, the alt sprites and things like that /may/ work but at the same time may not.

 

I still say no currency being added in but if there ever was a any put in, I'd rather see it used for things like that than to buy eggs with. (even if it is a gold/egg you are still essentially buying it)

 

 

TJ himself allowed a Tinsel owner to have the worst curse of all as a code, though... e____e

Not supporting, just saying.

 

I have one from his lineage but it is just a code and a word so no harm to me.

 

Anyway the whole being able to change the codes to something else might actually cause more harm than good.

Edited November 4, 2012 by demonicvampiregirl

[Dolphinsong]

Again what is to prevent people from always charging the max allowed price for eggs/hatchlings? CBs to Awsome Lineage to Messy Lineage, all at the same max price among all players... Makes money worthless.

[PointOfOrigin]

Why do people keep dismissing the need for a currency sink as if it's not a problem????

 

You still haven't worked over this one. Any system involving money can't function without an outlet.

[Kith]

I would like to take a moment to thank the OP for reposting the nuts and bolts of their official system idea; I had indeed totally missed it for some reason. I will ruminate on the implications and post again if I have further thoughts.

[KageSora]

Why do people keep dismissing the need for a currency sink as if it's not a problem????

 

You still haven't worked over this one. Any system involving money can't function without an outlet.

This, so much.

 

If the person you want to buy from is at the cap, why would they SELL their dragon? They wouldn't, therefore it wouldn't help you at all to have coins. Without an outlet, this will become more common as people end up with money but don't have places to spend it.

 

And this could not exist alongside trading equally forever--one would eventually overtake the other, whichever that would be.

[HeatherMarie]

2. For every dragon you raise, you can get 1-2 money. (Changed from Gold since people were complaining about RP stuff. Replace 'money' with whatever.) If you hatch it, you just get 1m. If you raise it, and an adult would have given you 2m, you get 1m more.

Commons give you 2m, and uncommons and rares give you 1m, to encourage blocker raising.

So, I hatch a Neo and a Split. I get 1m for each. When they grow up, I get 1m more for the Neo. A total of 3m.

Again, there is *no such thing* as commons/uncommons/rares in DragonCave. *users* decide how much something is worth. Using ratios won't work either, because ratios are always changing. The amount of money given for raising breeds would always have to be changed, because ratios are always changing.

 

Your post goes a long way towards explaining what you want, and what you want is a complete overhaul of what DragonCave is. Forcing users to raise a kabillion commons just to get enough money to buy a rare isn't fair.

 

One thing a lot of people like about DragonCave is the freedom to play how you want to play. Some people spend all their time making pretty lineages. Some people spend their time breeding their dragons constantly. Some people describe every single dragon, some people don't describe any. *Forcing* players to play a certain way, by raising dragons they don't want, in order to obtain money to buy with, that's not what DC is about.

 

[brairtrainer]

You still haven't worked over this one. Any system involving money can't function without an outlet.

This, so much.

 

If the person you want to buy from is at the cap, why would they SELL their dragon? They wouldn't, therefore it wouldn't help you at all to have coins. Without an outlet, this will become more common as people end up with money but don't have places to spend it.

 

And this could not exist alongside trading equally forever--one would eventually overtake the other, whichever that would be.

Yes exactly, and I don't see a reasonable way to add an outlet to DC, and I don't see a way that this will help newbes if anything it would make people who show up after the change have more problems starting up, and those not on the forums would be lost in the system.

[Slaskia]

How The System Works

 

<snip>

 

This system is in addition to trading. It will not replace it.

 

The problem, is that systems like this end up forcing people to change their playstyle in order to have a chance at certain trades. One of two things would happen: either most people end up using it for the above reason, or hardly anyone uses it thus making the effort a waste.

 

2. For every dragon you raise, you can get 1-2 money.

 

I am one of those players that have a specific limit on how many of each breed I have. Once I reach that goal for that breed, I do not catch that dragon again (not even for 'catch/hatch/abandon'), unless I end up starting a breeding project with it. So...unless the money gained was retroactive (which wouldn't be fair as there are players that have thousands of dragons right now), I would be at disadvantage unless I broke my own 'playstyle' in order to compete, trading wise, and that wouldn't be right.

 

Prices could be set by users irrespective of the dragon, but the market will have a suggested price list for CB dragons only. (Since some value messy-gens, and some hate them, and anything beyond CB is hard to calculate. This is to primarily let users decide what they want.)

 

This suggested price list will use the ratios to determine the price of a dragon. For example, if you lined up all the dragons based on availability, with Hollies as most common and Golds as least common, Hollies would have a suggested price of 10m and Golds would have a suggested price of 75m. (Wishful thinking.  )

 

Problem. Such a list would require knowledge of how the ratios work, which TJ will NOT reveal. Such a list would have to be maintained by TJ himself and I don't see him doing it as some people may try to use such a list as a means of reverse engineering the site (which is a big no no). Not to mention this would be more work for poor TJ.

 

6. This is a feature I'm playing with. If everyone hates it, then that's okay. I just thought it was a nice incentive to get money. I was thinking that you could use money to buy hints as to what the next dragon will be. They'd be little hints, like dragon type or color or a random fact (like the dragon likes avocados). Maybe you could buy no more than 3. Seem like a fun idea?

 

No, would kind of defeat the purpose of getting people to 'forget' what they were on the completed list before release. Get enough hints and a person that religiously saves a copy of each completed sprite and s/he will go 'oh hey, that's the new dragon coming up!'

 

FTR, I am still against this suggestion as it would radically change the site too much from what it is originally meant to be.

 

Granted, I'm not a big trader, but if something like this does go into effect, I will likely leave as I would be at a disadvantage due to my playstyle for when I 'do' want to trade for something.

[Pokemonfan13]

My VERY good post questioning the BASICS of the idea that you skipped because it was page 11

http://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showt...dpost&p=6705099

 

This system is in addition to trading. It will not replace it.

......just because you say it doesn't make it true. I can easily imagine it replacing egg trading unless a significant percentage of the people refuse to participate in the money economy, and if that's the case the money economy is likely to collapse because people wouldn't be able to buy the egg they want.

 

Think of it this way. You want a CB black and have a CB stripe you want to trade for it. You have to find someone with a CB black who wants a CB stripe. However, if there's a money economy that is functional it is much easier to SELL your CB black and find ANYONE with a CB stripe. Therefore nobody will trade egg-to-egg. Even if you were one of the objectors that wanted to do real trading most CB stripes would be snapped up by people who use currency since that "trade" takes less time and effort, even if people still were listing the EGGS they would take in exchange. So you'd have to either be real quick about finding the trade [assuming the person even bothered to list that they needed a CB black] or trade amongst the MUCH smaller community that refuses to deal with money, probably having to wheel and deal with multiple people to get your CB stripe.

 

I do not like your uber control system. It would not prevent inflation, everyone would get the maximum amount of currency and nobody would be able to buy anything from anybody without a currency sink. The only thing it would do is limit play style.