Marriage Equality and Other MOGAI/Queer Rights

[teenyVictini]

And a point that you brought up was that animals do it. Animals also eat their own young. So if human mothers started eating babies, it would be natural since animals do it, right? ^-^

A mother will only eat her young if there's no other food source available when it comes to mammals, which humans are. Maternal instinct is powerful, and it's not natural to eat your own children unless situations are very extreme.

[Dimar]

Well, since aids is a sexually transmitted disease and it comes from monkeys, I thought that you might perhaps put two and two together.

It's also transmitted through body fluid like blood. People eating infected primates or coming into contact with their blood during hunting/slaughtering would transfer the infection to humans.

 

Edit: Have some sources!

 

The AIDS Institute

Centers for Disease Control & Prevention

AVERT (Intl' HIV & AIDS Charity)

InfoPlease

Edited September 8, 2013 by Dimar

[TwilightMoonDragon]

Here is my opinion.

 

I believe that everyone, EVERYONE has rights ALL over the world. So if homosexual people want to get married, it's cool, brah.

 

THOUGH, according to my religion [Christianity/Catholicism], it is EXTREMELY sinful for a man and a man, or a woman and a woman, to be together, thus, as the Bible says, earns them a one way ticket to hell unless they repent.

AGAIN, this is not me that is speaking. It is my religion, so don't pounce on me.

[igloo9201]

Whatevs. ^^ Anyways, people get abortions all the time so same thing. Will not be responding.

[teenyVictini]

THOUGH, according to my religion [Christianity/Catholicism], it is EXTREMELY sinful for a man and a man, or a woman and a woman, to be together, thus, as the Bible says, earns them a one way ticket to hell unless they repent.

AGAIN, this is not me that is speaking. It is my religion, so don't pounce on me.

Your religion says it, but if you choose to believe it, the onus is on you.

 

Anyways, people get abortions all the time so same thing. Will not be responding.

 

Not same thing, but this isn't the abortion topic, so it's irrelevant to bring that up.

Edited September 8, 2013 by teenyVictini

[Zovesta]

I'm pretty sure most of us are aware that Catholicism thinks that homosexuality is sinful, thanks for the quick lesson though. XP

 

also LMAO igloo9201 quick try to run away like UR ABUVE IT faster!!

Edited September 8, 2013 by Zovesta

[Rosedamai]

God I am sick of the "gays=AIDS" rhetoric. Lesbians have a way lower percentage of people with AIDS than, say, straight people. Are we god's chosen ones then? Ugh.

[KageSora]

This might sound a bit insensitve, but why are we worrying about gay rights when our education system is messed up, our healthcare is going down hill, our economy is is in the toilet, our daycare system in rotten to the core, our orphanage system, large scale pollution and other such things. Why are we worrying about a moral dilemma that will never be solved rather than issues in our systems that can be solved. Someone please explain that logic to me.

Just commenting here--I know you've removed yourself from the conversation, but there might be other people who hold similar views so I wanted to make a comment about this idea.

 

A LOT of issues are interlinked. There's a lot of problems with discrimination in education--racial, gender identity, sexual orientation, sex, financial situation, etc. Some issues with the adoption system include things like gay couples not being able to adopt, or issues with children not being adopted based on race.

 

Human rights issues are tangled up in a lot of other issues. Many issues have at least some part of "but I don't want X benefiting because of Y" as at least an undertone, if not blatantly part of the argument against something.

 

 

And idk it just seems so....unnatural.

You're using an artificially made device to talk to people hundreds or thousands of miles away from you who you will likely never meet face to face.

 

And you're complaining that how somebody was born is unnatural?

 

Whatevs. ^^ Anyways, people get abortions all the time so same thing. Will not be responding.

I'd get an abortion if I got pregnant--since that would involve me being raped and I don't much fancy carrying the spawn of my attacker for 9 months while it plays havoc on my body with hormones and whatnot (seeing as my mental health is already oh so fragile, I really couldn't handle that) and then, of course, I would be a horrible parent and there's already so damn many kids in the system... But that's a debate for another thread.

[Bacon_Strips]

THOUGH, according to my religion [Christianity/Catholicism], it is EXTREMELY sinful for a man and a man, or a woman and a woman, to be together, thus, as the Bible says, earns them a one way ticket to hell unless they repent.

That is worded terribly wrong. The church is against homosexual acts. If you're an biromantic asexual, the church isn't going to demonize you for holding the hand of another one of your gender.

Edited September 9, 2013 by Bacon_Strips

[Lythiaren]

Here is my opinion.

 

I believe that everyone, EVERYONE has rights ALL over the world. So if homosexual people want to get married, it's cool, brah.

 

THOUGH, according to my religion [Christianity/Catholicism], it is EXTREMELY sinful for a man and a man, or a woman and a woman, to be together, thus, as the Bible says, earns them a one way ticket to hell unless they repent.

AGAIN, this is not me that is speaking. It is my religion, so don't pounce on me.

The important question is, do you believe it? You can't blame your belief system for something like this. You will believe what you want to believe. So, in light of that, do you, personally believe that people have earned a "one way ticket to hell" purely for the way they were born? Do you, personally believe that they would be condemned by a higher power for loving another human being, just because they have similar parts in their undies?

 

Saying "I think it's fine but my belief system does not" is confusing and comes off as dodging responsibility. You have an opinion of your own, don't you? Set aside your beliefs when you state it.

[HeatherMarie]

The important question is, do you believe it? You can't blame your belief system for something like this. You will believe what you want to believe. So, in light of that, do you, personally believe that people have earned a "one way ticket to hell" purely for the way they were born? Do you, personally believe that they would be condemned by a higher power for loving another human being, just because they have similar parts in their undies?

 

Saying "I think it's fine but my belief system does not" is confusing and comes off as dodging responsibility. You have an opinion of your own, don't you? Set aside your beliefs when you state it.

Wonderfully said, Lyth.

 

This is the internet. Which means I've heard WAY too many people go "well maybe marriage equality wouldn't affect *me* personally, but my *religion* is against it so that's how I believe". Which..... is usually completely contradictory.

 

You can identify as a certain religion without believing *every single thing* they say (contrary to what they may tell you). Small example: A church I used to go to had a very strict view of giving 10% of all your money as tithes. Living on a part-time minimum-wage, I simply couldn't do that without skipping bills. Anotherwords, I didn't agree with that practice. Did I still go around saying that EVERYONE MUST TITHE A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE because that's what my CHURCH believed, even though I didn't? No, I didn't.

 

Practice what you preach... Don't preach what you don't practice. If you don't believe in something, say that. If you do believe in something, say that. Don't always feel like you have to add on "according to my religion" if it *doesn't apply to you*.

[esnym]

The thing that bugs me most about the issue, other than the fact that it shouldn't even be an argument anyway, is the self-contradiction that seems to be going on all the time. NO ONE has a good, logical argument against it, only "Well, my RELIGION says it's wrong" or "It's just gross" or "It's unnatural." None of which are good or valid arguments.

 

Last I checked, a big part of Christianity was love, compassion, and not passing judgment on others. So all the people that go around screaming ""ALL LIFE IS SACRED" go and discriminate, discriminate, and discriminate people to death. Yeah, real logical guys.

 

 

 

[Riverwillows]

One of the simplist ways to view it is this:

 

I don't like turnips. They are gross. Disgusting. Lot's of people, however, love them. And turnips have been around as a staple crop since the beginning of time. So, just because I find them gross, does that give ME the right to ban everyone from eating them?

 

I know, many will say that's too simplistic. Actually, no, it's not. Not if you are going to use the excuse that something is horrible and should not be allowed, simply because YOU personally don't like it.

 

 

Same thing by saying YOU don't mind it but your Village(beliefs) thinks it's wrong. Say you love turnips. But your Village elders have decided that they are unhealthy and should not be planted, and people caught eating them will be punished. (Usually cause one of the Village elders don't like them).

 

Is that any more fair? Because again, it is the same thing. Just as stupid.

 

Think about it.

[greatguy]

One of the simplist ways to view it is this:

 

I don't like turnips. They are gross. Disgusting. Lot's of people, however, love them. And turnips have been around as a staple crop since the beginning of time. So, just because I find them gross, does that give ME the right to ban everyone from eating them?

This is precisely my view on the issue. Yes, imo, gay sex is gross, but if people do it where I can't see it that's their buisness. And if they do it where I can see it I'm going to blindfold myself.

[Lythiaren]

I'm quite sure that most wouldn't want to make you watch, either.

Edited September 9, 2013 by Lythiaren

[Momo]

The thing that bugs me most about the issue, other than the fact that it shouldn't even be an argument anyway, is the self-contradiction that seems to be going on all the time. NO ONE has a good, logical argument against it, only "Well, my RELIGION says it's wrong" or "It's just gross" or "It's unnatural." None of which are good or valid arguments.

 

Last I checked, a big part of Christianity was love, compassion, and not passing judgment on others. So all the people that go around screaming ""ALL LIFE IS SACRED" go and discriminate, discriminate, and discriminate people to death. Yeah, real logical guys.

I agree, completely. Your post sums up, every bit of it, what I'm dealing with in terms of people against LGBT equality, marriage rights and just the concept in general in this thread.

In Cultural Anthroplogy, we essentially learn how to "argue" effectively - Some people don't even know that there are official, established rules to arguing to make it the most productive as it can be in terms of both sides understanding each other ( can you believe that an argument isn't even supposed to be heated? lmao! ) by presenting your case, feelings and facts properly, and maybe even both sides coming out with something out of the whole thing.

 

When someone's argument consists of those things that you stated, it's a very weak, improper argument case. Cultural Anthropology basically ignores the people who build their argument that way, because it reads into, by its standards, "sorry man, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. You shouldn't be conversing with people who do - Goodbye!"

 

I would love to sit around and combat all the people who are against the opportunities in this thread and the concept of equality, accepting LGBT people into both our hearts and our societies, but, according to CA, it's just.. pointless. I'd like to get something out of their claims and maybe even slightly understand them, but.. >: Most of them aren't providing proper cases on which to debate.

 

Last I checked, a big part of Christianity was love, compassion, and not passing judgment on others. So all the people that go around screaming ""ALL LIFE IS SACRED" go and discriminate, discriminate, and discriminate people to death. Yeah, real logical guys.

 

This! Exactly! This is my exact view on my Christian faith - it is essentially love, compassion, no judging, etc. As you have said. My motto is live and let live - I have absolutely no problem with LBGT people any more than I do with heterosexual people, so.. o.o People are diverse. Let them be!

 

Now, I JUST heard this song on the radio when getting back from my university. I actually just wanted to post in this thread because of it:

You can just read the lyrics in the description if you don't want to listen to a whole song, but.. I love this song.

 

** The comments may be a little heated on the link ( I haven't looked at them, I just wanted to find the song ) so I'm warning about that bit. ^-^

[Bacon_Strips]

I like the Same Love song as well, but I wish Mackelmore would at least give some of the money he's made off of it and donate it to a LGBT rights charity. I can't recall him doing anything else to help them besides make a song that'll get him more rich.

[teenyVictini]

I like the Same Love song as well, but I wish Mackelmore would at least give some of the money he's made off of it and donate it to a LGBT rights charity. I can't recall him doing anything else to help them besides make a song that'll get him more rich.

I've heard criticisms of it because the voice is that of a straight ally instead of an actual person with experiences in the area. I'm all for Macklemore's support, but I don't quitel ike how he's talking over actual LGBT+ artists.

[Obscure_Trash]

I severely loathe Same Love. =_= There are plenty of awesome queer artists around to listen to, even if they're not allowed as much media as Crackermore. <3

 

He thought he was gay because he could draw in 3rd grade? Oh, whoo. He totally understands our issues. Did not appreciate the silencing of the actual GSM artist he had working with him during his VMA speech either.

 

Macklebore seems to view us as a way to profits. Isn't Same Love the song he pushed when Congress gave their answer on Prop 8? Yay, money.

Edited September 9, 2013 by SockPuppet Strangler

[TCA]

God I am sick of the "gays=AIDS" rhetoric. Lesbians have a way lower percentage of people with AIDS than, say, straight people. Are we god's chosen ones then? Ugh.

Yes. Lesbians are clearly the chosen people.

Edited September 9, 2013 by TheCompleteAnimorph

[Momo]

I severely loathe Same Love. =_= There are plenty of awesome queer artists around to listen to, even if they're not allowed as much media as Crackermore. <3

 

He thought he was gay because he could draw in 3rd grade? Oh, whoo. He totally understands our issues. Did not appreciate the silencing of the actual GSM artist he had working with him during his VMA speech either.

 

Macklebore seems to view us as a way to profits. Isn't Same Love the song he pushed when Congress gave their answer on Prop 8? Yay, money.

I may be reading into the lyrics a little differently than you are/other people are, Sock.

I took that line as the fact that there are so many stereotypes that according to them, in addition to being so heavily misinformed about it as if it was forbidden to explain to a child, ( such as he also thought he'd be gay because his uncle was ) he thought he was gay, and.. he was young at that time, so it's natural to be bound by stereotypes and think they're true until you age, get out in the real world and get the real truth.

I think the lyrics are intending to blend in what "people think" and what is true/what it all comes down to, which is why I enjoy it.

 

I should also clarify that I'm not familiar with Macklemore, so I appreciate you informing me about the background and the political actions he's taken advantage of and such. ^-^

I very rarely listen to any English-lyric songs, so popular artists/songs or American artists and their backgrounds are mostly lost on me.

 

God I am sick of the "gays=AIDS" rhetoric. Lesbians have a way lower percentage of people with AIDS than, say, straight people. Are we god's chosen ones then? Ugh.

I can't tell what you're implying, but AIDS certainly doesn't imply that you "deserved it" or that God is "punishing you." I hope that's not what you're implying. o.o;

[Obscure_Trash]

I may be reading into the lyrics a little differently than you are/other people are, Sock.

I took that line as the fact that there are so many stereotypes that according to them, in addition to being so heavily misinformed about it as if it was forbidden to explain to a child, ( such as he also thought he'd be gay because his uncle was ) he thought he was gay, and.. he was young at that time, so it's natural to be bound by stereotypes and think they're true until you age, get out in the real world and get the real truth.

I think the lyrics are intending to blend in what "people think" and what is true/what it all comes down to, which is why I enjoy it.

 

I should also clarify that I'm not familiar with Macklemore, so I appreciate you informing me about the background and the political actions he's taken advantage of and such. ^-^

I very rarely listen to any English-lyric songs, so popular artists/songs or American artists and their backgrounds are mostly lost on me.

People are allowed to have different opinions on it. =p

 

But as a part of the queer/GSM community, I don't appreciate his "efforts" or the song, personally.

 

But basically the song comes of like a cishet white male took five seconds looking into heterosexism/monosexism, then decided to sing a song about it even though he doesn't know the issues and didn't spend a whole lot of time listening to it. The only high point is Mary Lambert. x3

 

Thinking you're gay in 3rd grade because of the stereotypes is just not comparable to the corrective rape, higher chances of rape, higher chances of homelessness, job discrimination, school discrimination, higher chances of bullying, higher chances of attacks or murder that the GSM community has to face.

 

His song is also a slap in the face to black artists. "If I was gay, I would think hip-hop hates me" He knows he is appropriating rap but doesn't care, and takes the chance in this song to throw rap artists under the bus, completely erasing all the black, queer rappers that exist, completely erasing all the black, allied rappers that exist, completely ignoring the fact that it's not just his rap that "isn't problematic in this instance" and completely ignoring the problems he creates with his rap. He presents himself as the white savior, really, instead of showing any kind of solidarity with those he claims to be an ally of.

 

He also uses slurs against gay folk in his song, even though he's not gay and therefore can't reclaim them.

 

He also makes the mistake of trying to compare the queer struggle to the struggle of POC, against erasing QPOC, and acting like racism is over and that the situations should even be compared. Struggles are unique, and it really isn't appreciated when people try to use one struggle as a metaphor for another because of their uniqueness and because of intersectionality.

 

Just overall, there are a lot of problematic elements in it, and he really should have done more research if he was serious about doing a song about acceptance. ^^

 

I can't tell what you're implying, but AIDS certainly doesn't imply that you "deserved it" or that God is "punishing you." I hope that's not what you're implying. o.o;

 

There's a lot of people who do use the argument that 'gays have a higher chance of AIDS is proof being gay is wrong' or even 'you deserve AIDS if you're gay', and ylangylang is disagreeing with that particularly nasty brand of hate.

[Rosedamai]

God I am sick of the "gays=AIDS" rhetoric. Lesbians have a way lower percentage of people with AIDS than, say, straight people. Are we god's chosen ones then? Ugh.

I can't tell what you're implying, but AIDS certainly doesn't imply that you "deserved it" or that God is "punishing you." I hope that's not what you're implying. o.o;

It's a joke, because people keep saying AIDS is something that god sent to punish gay people. Thus lesbians = lower rates of AIDS = chosen ones that god loves.

 

Also, if Macklemore is so against homophobia, he shouldn't have made a homophobic slur a part of his lyrics, just sayin'

[WereJace]

People are allowed to have different opinions on it. =p

 

But as a part of the queer/GSM community, I don't appreciate his "efforts" or the song, personally.

 

But basically the song comes of like a cishet white male took five seconds looking into heterosexism/monosexism, then decided to sing a song about it even though he doesn't know the issues and didn't spend a whole lot of time listening to it. The only high point is Mary Lambert. x3

 

Thinking you're gay in 3rd grade because of the stereotypes is just not comparable to the corrective rape, higher chances of rape, higher chances of homelessness, job discrimination, school discrimination, higher chances of bullying, higher chances of attacks or murder that the GSM community has to face.

 

His song is also a slap in the face to black artists. "If I was gay, I would think hip-hop hates me" He knows he is appropriating rap but doesn't care, and takes the chance in this song to throw rap artists under the bus, completely erasing all the black, queer rappers that exist, completely erasing all the black, allied rappers that exist, completely ignoring the fact that it's not just his rap that "isn't problematic in this instance" and completely ignoring the problems he creates with his rap. He presents himself as the white savior, really, instead of showing any kind of solidarity with those he claims to be an ally of.

 

He also uses slurs against gay folk in his song, even though he's not gay and therefore can't reclaim them.

 

He also makes the mistake of trying to compare the queer struggle to the struggle of POC, against erasing QPOC, and acting like racism is over and that the situations should even be compared. Struggles are unique, and it really isn't appreciated when people try to use one struggle as a metaphor for another because of their uniqueness and because of intersectionality.

 

Just overall, there are a lot of problematic elements in it, and he really should have done more research if he was serious about doing a song about acceptance. ^^

 

 

 

There's a lot of people who do use the argument that 'gays have a higher chance of AIDS is proof being gay is wrong' or even 'you deserve AIDS if you're gay', and ylangylang is disagreeing with that particularly nasty brand of hate.

^^^All of these things.

 

However, one good thing has come out of Same Love, and that is She Keeps Me Warm, by the only queer artist involved in Same Love, Mary Lambert.

 

[Obscure_Trash]

Ooh, I hadn't watched/heard that yet! Soooo cute. All the cutes. ;~;