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I'm a Christian, and my view is: Not my job to judge.

Reminds me of that captioned picture of Jesus preaching...

 

"So basically, feed them, clothe them, care for them, and leave the judging to me."

 

"But... what if they're gay? Or worship other gods?"

 

"... did I stutter?"

 

 

There's a difference between "hate," "judging," and having beliefs.

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*revives thread*

 

So right now, I'm working on converting to Ásatrú (Norse Heathenism, if you didn't know ^^).

 

For awhile I was agnostic; I didn't think there was a religion that I'd fit in with. But I had all these stray beliefs, and I've been looking to see if there is a religion where they'd fit for awhile. Well, I think I finally did. This just feels right to me. And I also feel that I've been called by the Norse gods.

 

Problem is, I'm having trouble finding any information to help me. I've found a few websites that seem credible, but it's really hard to tell online. And books on anything but the "main three" religions are impossible to find here. No such luck finding any other heathens around here either. So... is there anyone here who could maybe help me get some information? I don't want to just go into this on feeling alone.

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No one is right. ._. Problem solved.

Yus. I agree. Or just simply, no one knows.

 

And anyway, I don't think any of you have pancake mix.

Edited by Dauntingale

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Problem is, I'm having trouble finding any information to help me. I've found a few websites that seem credible, but it's really hard to tell online. And books on anything but the "main three" religions are impossible to find here. No such luck finding any other heathens around here either. So... is there anyone here who could maybe help me get some information? I don't want to just go into this on feeling alone.

As far as finding other Heathens in your area, have you tried the Witches of the World section on Witchvox? Don't let the title mislead you: it's a clearing house for Pagan contacts of all kinds, organized by country right down to the city and town level.

 

I don't know much about Heathenism, but I wish you the best of luck in your search. smile.gif

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As far as finding other Heathens in your area, have you tried the Witches of the World section on Witchvox? Don't let the title mislead you: it's a clearing house for Pagan contacts of all kinds, organized by country right down to the city and town level.

 

I don't know much about Heathenism, but I wish you the best of luck in your search. smile.gif

Thank you, Prairiecrow. Still not seeing any Heathens in my area, but this could still be pretty helpful. happy.gif

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Found this picture.

 

user posted image

 

Now, I don't mean to offend those who believe, but I find that this pretty much sums up how I feel about those who claim [insert holy text here] is absolute proof that their religion is correct and everybody else is wrong.

 

 

A religious text is "proof" of the validity of the religion only in the minds of those who already believe or who are already on the fence and leaning towards believing, it will do little to sway most of those who have no belief or are adamant in their belief in the falsehood of the religion.

 

To wave a Bible (or other holy text) in my face or to bring it up in a debate as "proof" that your religion is correct will do as much to convince me that you're right as waving a comic/movie/game/etc. in my face and claiming it to be definitive proof that whatever fictional character it stars is real.

 

 

I often see people in debates going back to "but this is what my holy text says" when they try to argue something, and I see often that they default to that because they believe their holy text is proof of their correctness. But, as I said, it is NOT proof in the eyes of those of us who have no faith in that religion, therefore going back to "my holy text say X" is a pretty poor excuse to use when debating with those who do not share the faith.

 

I mean, I understand explaining what your holy text states, and how that influences what you believe. But I don't appreciate those who want to impose rules or laws upon the lives of those who do not share the faith based solely on what their holy text states because, IMO, that'd be like somebody trying to get a law passed to restrict the lives of the citizens of whatever country based on something absurd in a comic book.

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Very well stated, KageSora. While I am Christian and adhere to belief in what the scriptures teach, I respect that others have skepticism about them.

 

I find the challenge of explaining my beliefs without attacking those who question them healthy and strengthening for my faith. I also adhere to the idea that everyone must exercise their free will to make their own choices about what to believe, and that everyone responds to input in their own personal way. I like your clear explanation about why "because the scripture says" arguments do not work for you.

Edited by Awdz Bodkins

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Ultimate authority is always reasoned circularly. It doesn't matter if your authority is the Bible or your feelings or what your pet dog said to you last night. In the end, it comes down to "the Bible is God's word. I know because it says it is. I know I can trust it when it says this because it's God's word." etc. One cannot "logic" themselves or anyone else into proof of God's existence. That's why I tend to avoid debates that are solely based on my convictions. "Because Bible" argumentation doesn't hold much sway with the unbeliever. If I can argue based on facts and real world scenarios, that's a little different.

Edited by philpot123

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"Because Bible" argumentation doesn't hold much sway with the unbeliever.

For those of us who do believe in a God but don't believe the Bible to be His word - do we get marked as 'unbelievers' in this case?

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For those of us who do believe in a God but don't believe the Bible to be His word - do we get marked as 'unbelievers' in this case?

Ah, sorry, I meant "unbeliever" in the sense of someone who doesn't ascribe to the same belief as the person touting the scriptures in question. Christianity was just an example.

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KageSora, I agree with you, but I definitely understand why some religious people try to use their scriptures as evidence in a debate. Especially if they haven't. discussed religion with other people before. I mean, if they were born into Christianity, that was probably the only 'proof' or 'evidence' they were given as a child. In church, kids typically don't learn logical arguments for the existence of God, the priests/pastors/teachers/parents just tell them that God is real because the Bible says so.

 

So you can't really blame them for making the false argument, at least not the first time. But it would annoy me if somebody continued to throw Bible verses at me even after I explained why the Bible isn't convincing to a non-christian.

 

Side note: I just signed up for my freshman college courses, one of which is Intro to Religion. I'm pretty excited about that, but I'm not sure what direction the class will take. I would have been more excited to take the Philosophy of Religion class, but it wasn't available. sad.gif

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KageSora, I agree with you, but I definitely understand why some religious people try to use their scriptures as evidence in a debate. Especially if they haven't. discussed religion with other people before. I mean, if they were born into Christianity, that was probably the only 'proof' or 'evidence' they were given as a child. In church, kids typically don't learn logical arguments for the existence of God, the priests/pastors/teachers/parents just tell them that God is real because the Bible says so.

 

So you can't really blame them for making the false argument, at least not the first time. But it would annoy me if somebody continued to throw Bible verses at me even after I explained why the Bible isn't convincing to a non-christian.

I don't have a problem with it when they're clearly inexperienced and don't understand that it isn't proof for everybody.

 

But too often people say "I don't believe [holy text] is proof, what else do you have?" and they just go "But... But... OF COURSE IT'S PROOF YOU'RE STUPID IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT WHAT IS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE [holy text] IS ABSOLUTE PROOF I'M RIGHT?!" or something to that effect.

 

 

They refuse to acknowledge that other people do not count it as proof, and continue to endlessly cite it as absolute proof. I also most often see it in people who are refusing to back out of a debate where their only argument is "the Bible says so, and the Bible is proof, therefore it's right", no matter how many times people nicely ask for some other proof because they don't believe in what the Bible says as being 100% proof of the validity of Christianity. (Or whatever other holy text as the proof for the corresponding religion)

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In contrast, I hate when religious people are debating their texts and some atheist comes along and goes "It's not real you're wasting your time, idiots!"

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In contrast, I hate when religious people are debating their texts and some atheist comes along and goes "It's not real you're wasting your time, idiots!"

Very true! Interrupting a discussion just to mock the participants is rude at best, no matter what the topic. It's especially annoying when the topic is one for which the participants have passionate feelings and there is no way the interrupter will relate to the perspectives being presented.

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In contrast, I hate when religious people are debating their texts and some atheist comes along and goes "It's not real you're wasting your time, idiots!"

Yeah, that's equally annoying. A lot of times there seems to be an attitude problem among the atheist community. It seems like their goal is always to pick a fight and I won't hesitate to include myself in this. Frankly, I love discussing and even arguing about religion, so it's difficult for me to resist the urge to bring the subject up.

 

But I don't. It's about self-control. And if my religious friends don't want to talk about it, then I leave them alone.

 

Although, I feel like atheists are way, way, way more obnoxious on the internet than in real life. I've never seen an atheist behave like that to somebody's face. I think some atheists probably try to pick fights on the internet because they're unable to have discussions with people in real life. I know I've felt that way before.

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Yep, that's me.

 

I actually have had a fight with someone about religion on the bus ride home from our class trip. We watched a movie, Evan Almighty, and I found it quite offensive, because it was relaying religious messages. I was complaining about it, and the kid behind me said "It's only offensive to Atheists." and I said "Yeah, your point is? I'm am Atheist." He then said that "Atheists are stupid." this ticked me off, so I started arguing with him. I asked him to give me proof of god, and at first he refused to give me proof, and was saying "Give me proof he doesn't." I gave him proof, and he started arguing back, and somehow came to the conclusion that "god came from the Big Bang" xd.png

*shrugs* It's silly to get worked up over a movie that's supposed to be humorous anyways.

 

I mean, some religious people could find it offensive if they wanted to for a variety of reasons. I mean, it poked fun at religion. It portrayed a human in the role of God. Etc., etc., etc. Really not worth it in the long run to get worked up about it.

 

I can't tell if the person who was sitting behind you just butted into the conversation or if he was involved, but if he was involved, I could see why he might get worked up. I mean, no one likes to sit around and hear what the believe be "complained" about, just like you didn't like him complaining about atheists. It doesn't justify what he did, but I can't tell from what you posted if it justified what you said either.

 

So overall, I would say both would contain some fault for what happened. People get touchy about religious things. You don't have to believe in a god. They should not have been so rude because you were an atheist.

 

Atheists shouldn't be rude about the idea that someone might be religious.

 

Everyone needs to have mutual respect, no matter what end of the spectrum they're on.

Edited by Walker

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@Erica: yeah, it probably wasn't worth the fight. Especially since Evan Almighty isn't an offensive movie by itself. If you were at a public school, they probably should have chosen a more neutral movie, but at least it wasn't Passion of the Christ or something like that. It's just a funny movie.

 

 

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If you want to quote something extra just copy and paste it into your post and put quote tags around it.

 

Like this.

 

The tags look like this without the extra spaces.

 

[ quote ] copy/paste here [ /quote ]

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I asked him to give me proof of god, and at first he refused to give me proof, and was saying "Give me proof he doesn't." I gave him proof, and he started arguing back, and somehow came to the conclusion that "god came from the Big Bang" xd.png

I'm curious... what did you use as "proof" God does not exist? How did you prove the negative?

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I'm curious... what did you use as "proof" God does not exist? How did you prove the negative?

You can't definitely prove it either way. That said, the burden of proof is on the theists, not the atheists.

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In contrast, I hate when religious people are debating their texts and some atheist comes along and goes "It's not real you're wasting your time, idiots!"

I don't like how a lot of people, religious or atheist (or, really, on either side of any debate), go "If you're not on my side you're clearly an idiot and here are all the reasons why". :< I mean, if you can prove somebody is wrong using facts, sure, that's one thing--but too often the "facts" don't prove anything either way.

 

 

I asked him to give me proof of god, and at first he refused to give me proof, and was saying "Give me proof he doesn't." I gave him proof, and he started arguing back, and somehow came to the conclusion that "god came from the Big Bang" xd.png

o_O You have proof that God doesn't exist? Please, share it.

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I'm a christian and the one thing I don't like is that if your a christian everyone automatically assumes your perfect and don't make mistakes which isn't true because I make lots of mistakes and he forgives me everytime I screw up, in fact my favorite christian bumper sticker says and if I remember it correctly "I'm not perfect, just saved".

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I've... Never actually met a person who assumes that being Christian means you're perfect.

 

 

I have, however, seen a large number of Christians who think that being Christian makes them perfect. That could be why people assume you think that way.

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