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Paradisiske

ANSWERED:bring back cb prizes

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I'd rather have them as breedables, since at least I can GET them, even if they aren't CB.

 

What would be worse is having an ENTIRE DRAGON that NO ONE else could have.

That's not worse though- because at least then the owners couldn't produce things for no effort that earns them free CB Golds and Silvers. Owning a CB prize is like being a millionaire.

Not to mention there already are dragons we can't own, like spriters alts. I don't see people asking for everyone to have them.

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That's not worse though- because at least then the owners couldn't produce things for no effort that earns them free CB Golds and Silvers. Owning a CB prize is like being a millionaire.

Not to mention there already are dragons we can't own, like spriters alts. I don't see people asking for everyone to have them.

I've seen a few people who want spriters alts (mostly because of the fact they can't have them even though they didn't make the dragon)

And they're just recolors. They don't even pass down.

 

But for collection purposes, it's even worse to never get something at all, than to get something that isn't perfect.

 

That would be more like having spriters alts except the holiday dragons itself were never released - only the person who created Rosebuds ever got them, ect.

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That doesn't make the fact that getting an ultra rare otherwise unobtainable dragon that you can breed for endless profit isn't a very bad thing.

It gives those players an unfair advantage.

And honestly for my collection purposes, I don't want a bunch of stairstep lineages, I want CBs or for there to be enough to reasonably make even gens out of them.

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That doesn't make the fact that getting an ultra rare otherwise unobtainable dragon that you can breed for endless profit isn't a very bad thing.

It gives those players an unfair advantage.

And honestly for my collection purposes, I don't want a bunch of stairstep lineages, I want CBs or for there to be enough to reasonably make even gens out of them.

I never said it wasn't wrong they had a monopoly on CB prizes. I just said it's better for them to be breedable than something no one except a few can ever get.

 

I want a re-release myself, but in a reasonable manner.

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Can we please just stop with the whole "prize owners have a printing press" bit? It's not like every egg they spit out is shiny if/when they do make one, trading is *not* as easy as some seem to think, and this whole attitude is why mine is essentially retired, thereby removing yet another from the gene pool. At this point I'd be more than happy to have the dratted things drop as blockers. dry.gif

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Can we please just stop with the whole "prize owners have a printing press" bit? It's not like every egg they spit out is shiny if/when they do make one, trading is *not* as easy as some seem to think, and this whole attitude is why mine is essentially retired, thereby removing yet another from the gene pool. At this point I'd be more than happy to have the dratted things drop as blockers. dry.gif

Agreed. And mates that aren't holidays often just produce nothing, which makes 2G prizes even harder to get.

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No, not every egg they produce is shiny - but I remember times where even 2nd gen prizefails went for a CB metal or more. And, if you're honest, if you had wanted to, you could have gotten everything every DC player could only dream of getting by trading your Drama offspring. (No offense meant. I'm not saying you did, nor did I say you weren't allowed to.)

 

But that is the most problematic thing about CB prizes: They still dominate the trading market, thereby affecting everyone on site, whether they like Drama dragons or not, much less try to get some. The fact is that Drama Dragons have been affecting DC in countless ways for years on end now, and most of them are anything but good. There're now exclusive dragons only a very small subset of players owns as CB, there's literally no way for everyone else to get them at all (as CB), they're shiny and at least uncommon (two traits which make them desirable), they dominate the trading market and thereby hamper other kinds of trades. Their sprites are gorgeous, another thing that makes them desirable, but it's very hard to create anything but stairstep or spiral lineages with them.

 

I think it's the Drama dragons' exclusivity that causes most of this, so I feel that this is what needs to go.

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No, not every egg they produce is shiny - but I remember times where even 2nd gen prizefails went for a CB metal or more. And, if you're honest, if you had wanted to, you could have gotten everything every DC player could only dream of getting by trading your Drama offspring. (No offense meant. I'm not saying you did, nor did I say you weren't allowed to.)

 

But that is the most problematic thing about CB prizes: They still dominate the trading market, thereby affecting everyone on site, whether they like Drama dragons or not, much less try to get some. The fact is that Drama Dragons have been affecting DC in countless ways for years on end now, and most of them are anything but good. There're now exclusive dragons only a very small subset of players owns as CB, there's literally no way for everyone else to get them at all (as CB), they're shiny and at least uncommon (two traits which make them desirable), they dominate the trading market and thereby hamper other kinds of trades. Their sprites are gorgeous, another thing that makes them desirable, but it's very hard to create anything but stairstep or spiral lineages with them.

 

I think it's the Drama dragons' exclusivity that causes most of this, so I feel that this is what needs to go.

Oh, I probably could have, and no offense taken. smile.gif

 

I know Dramas have been problem children in *lots* of ways, I'm just not clever enough to come up with any suggestions or believe me, I would have. I would just like to see discussion about it without every other post saying we've had a gold mine for years, it's not fair we get everything we want.

 

And that's why I'm at the let them drop as blockers stage, but then it'd be different Drama.

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And that's exactly why we are discussing various options right now. I don't feel like typing it up right now, so here's a list from a previous post:

I don't particularly agree with that.

 

Frills were common before the breed had been discontinued. It doesn't make sense for them to suddenly be rare after they come back.

 

It is unfortunate for the people who won CB Frills.

 

At least, they can say they had official Prize Frills from when the breed had been all, but extinct. Same for any Prize Arias/Bright Pinks.

--

 

Anyway, back on topic.

 

It seems like the current range of choices for getting CB Prizes back in the game are:

(from most liked in the thread to least liked in the thread)

 

1) The Store/Trader's Canyon

- Which may or may not happen, and if it does happen, it won't be anytime soon and possibly not in the same way that the request is currently designed.

- Loss of "Prize" association

- Places a price tag on dragons that may it difficult for different players to afford the dragons due to differing play styles

 

2) A Prize for Completing [insert Holiday] Event

- 1 prize of the player's choice per event per year (so you can only get a single CB prize a year for completing any one of the holiday events that year)

- Relatively easy way to get CB's

- Number of CB obtainable is limited

- Unable to get CB Prize if miss the event

 

3) A Prize for a specific Mini-Game

- 1 prize of the player's choice per completion of mini-game

- May or may not be tied to specific Dragon Cave Events

- May or may not be able to play multiple times to get more CB Prizes

- May restrict access to CB Prizes for players who can't play [insert mini-game here] well

 

4) Earning a "Prize" for raising/breeding/catching [insert number] Dragons

- Prizes given from bronze to gold as ascending number of achievements are met

- May be unattainable for players with certain play styles

- Possibly tie getting CB Prizes to trophies?

---- (Will people who already have gold trophies get all the Prize dragons or just gold versions or no prizes at all?)

 

5) "Summon" a Prize Dragon via a BSA of a Dragon

- Can get Prize eggs via a similar mechanic to Summoning GoN's, with all the pros and cons of the "Summon" BSA

- May force players to collect a dragon they were never intending to collect to get the Prize dragons

- Relies on chance for summoning the Prize

- May take years to get prizes if not enough of [insert Dragon breed]

 

6) Release in the Cave

- Functions as essentially another shiny rare dragon breed, with all the pros and cons of another shiny rare breed

- Obtainable in the cave to all players

- May be all year round or limited to Holiday Seasons

- No limitations on number or color other than set rarity,

- Biggest influences are outside the game: internet quality, computer age, and the player's physical ability

- May lead to discrepency in scrolls seen in other CB shiny rares

- May affect trading market similar to other shiny rares

- Good luck finding one

- Good luck catching one

 

7) Raffles

- Relies solely on chance for players to receive Prize Dragons

- No Longer active at the moment

- Tied to the Winter Holiday Events

- Led to the current situation of a near minuscule amount of players with total control of CB Prize Dragons and low lineage offspring

- Pushed the trading market in the favor of the few players with the CB Dragons

- Loss of breeding CB Prizes from Scroll Burning (multi-scrollers), Frozen Dragons, Released Dragons, Unclaimed Prizes, In-active Players, etc. have an incredible effect on number of CB Prizes and Low gen offspring due to the low number of dragons handed out by this mechanism

- A Very disliked option

- VERY.

 

Honorable Mention

8) Any one of the above

- Players that just want CB Prizes in some way or form and don't care too much about the method.

 

--

 

Anything I am missing? Any suggestions on changing the order?

 

Note: This order is not my personal order, but just from what I got from following the thread.

- Numbers 1 and 2 look most liked to me, while Numbers 6 and 7 look most disliked.

- Numbers 3 through 5 are not nearly as clear as which one is more disliked than the other.

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No, not every egg they produce is shiny - but I remember times where even 2nd gen prizefails went for a CB metal or more. And, if you're honest, if you had wanted to, you could have gotten everything every DC player could only dream of getting by trading your Drama offspring. (No offense meant. I'm not saying you did, nor did I say you weren't allowed to.)

 

But that is the most problematic thing about CB prizes: They still dominate the trading market, thereby affecting everyone on site, whether they like Drama dragons or not, much less try to get some. The fact is that Drama Dragons have been affecting DC in countless ways for years on end now, and most of them are anything but good. There're now exclusive dragons only a very small subset of players owns as CB, there's literally no way for everyone else to get them at all (as CB), they're shiny and at least uncommon (two traits which make them desirable), they dominate the trading market and thereby hamper other kinds of trades. Their sprites are gorgeous, another thing that makes them desirable, but it's very hard to create anything but stairstep or spiral lineages with them.

 

I think it's the Drama dragons' exclusivity that causes most of this, so I feel that this is what needs to go.

Support 10,000%.

 

But PLEASE make them so we can WORK to get them.

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Don't know if anyone else does this,but me,personally,when in the mood to breed my prizes and want to make sure that any eggs from the pairing will be shiny,choose from my armies of holidays since they only breed true during their particular holiday breed and I ALWAYS send them to the AP so that my fellow DC players stand a chance of getting one.Honestly never even knew that there's a "price tag" on them

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There is no true RNG. All RNGs are simply algorithms that can be predicted. Heck, Pokemon's RNG is very manipulable.

But I do not think random is fair regardless of if the RNG works or not.

Personally I find things tend to get boring quick when predictable.

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(Am I understanding correctly that "RNG" means "random number generator" here? So whenever someone says "RNG" in this topic they mean something like a raffle with completely random winners?)

 

 

There's a lot of discussion about what is or isn't "fair". I would like to add the following thoughts to that part of the discussion.

 

In my opinion, a raffle is a fair solution if the number of available rare items is somehow limited "by nature" and unchangeable.

 

Say 40000 years ago there's a village with 200 Neanderthals, and a time traveller brings them 3 pieces of candy, then he dies. Then those Neanderthals should totally hold a raffle to decide who gets to eat candy.

It's fair because obviously not everybody can have candy, so there have to be some "winners" and some "losers".

 

However, if there is a candy factory, a raffle with a limited supply of candy can suddenly feel like artificially created unfairness.

 

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I noticed that an old list of my has been posted, since I got tired and quit posting after awhile.

 

Here's a quotable updated list:

 

It seems like the current range of choices for getting CB Prizes back in the game are:

(from most liked in the thread to least liked in the thread)

 

1) The Store/Trader's Canyon

- Which may or may not happen (Currently: no confirmation by TJ)

- If it does happen, it won't be anytime soon and possibly not in the same way that the request is currently designed.

- Loss of "Prize" association

- Places a price tag on dragons that may make it difficult for different players to afford the dragons due to differing play styles

- Current design allows you to buy as many prizes as you can if you have the points for it, but getting points is limited to a weekly cap

--- Points are gained through catching eggs, raising dragons, breeding, and using BSA's

- Allows you to accumulate enough points to buy a Prize Dragon every 4-5 months if you stockpile all your points, consistently max out your weekly cap, and don't spend on anything else

 

2) A Prize for Completing [insert Holiday] Event

- 1 Prize Dragon of the player's choice per event per year (so you can only get a single CB prize a year for completing any one of the holiday events that year)

- Alternative: Chance to win 1 Prize per holiday event (Max of 3 prizes a year)

- Relatively easy way to get CB's; just require event completion

- Number of CB obtainable is limited

- Unable to get CB Prize if miss the event

- Maintains "Prize" association

 

3) A Prize for a specific Mini-Game

- 1 prize of the player's choice per completion of mini-game

- May or may not be tied to specific Dragon Cave Events

- May or may not be able to play multiple times to get more CB Prizes

- May restrict access to CB Prizes for players who can't play [insert mini-game here] well

- Maintains "Prize" association

 

4) Earning a "Prize" for reaching Achievements (ex: raising/breeding/catching [insert number] Dragons)

- Prizes given from bronze to gold as ascending number of achievements are met

- May be unattainable for players with certain play styles

- Possibly tie getting CB Prizes to trophies?

---- (Will people who already have gold trophies get all the Prize dragons or just gold versions or no prizes at all?)

- Alternative: Win prize for [insert time length] of active play

---- (What defines active play?)

- Maintains "Prize" association

 

5) "Summon" a Prize Dragon via a BSA of a Dragon

- Can get Prize eggs via a similar mechanic to Summoning GoN's, with all the pros and cons of the "Summon" BSA

- May force players to collect a dragon they were never intending to collect to get the Prize dragons

- Relies on chance for summoning the Prize

- May take years to get prizes if not enough of [insert Dragon breed]

- Loss of "Prize" association, but maintains reward aspect (reward for successful summon)

 

6) Release in the Cave

- Functions as essentially another shiny rare dragon breed, with all the pros and cons of another shiny rare breed

- Obtainable in the cave to all players

- May be all year round or limited to Holiday Seasons

- No limitations on number or color other than set rarity,

- Biggest influences are outside the game: internet quality, computer age, and the player's physical ability

- May lead to discrepancy in scrolls seen in other CB shiny rares

- May affect trading market similar to other shiny rares

- Good luck finding one

- Good luck catching one

- Loss of "Prize" association, but maintains victory aspect ("You caught a rare!")

- Potential: Much more likeable if the release makes the Prize dragons very common

 

7) Lotteries

- A Raffle like give a way of CB Prizes (See Raffles for more info)

- Similar pros and cons as Raffles: Random chance, small pool of winners, possible warping of trade market; exacerbated effects of loss of CB prizes due to small numbers in circulation

- Not associated with events

- Weekly, Monthly, Quarterly, or other time frames for the lotteries (Just not yearly)

- May lower anxiety and toxic nature of raffles by making them more common and predictable

- Removal of custom codes to make it easier for Prize dragons to be distributed

- Potential: Adds on blacklist for those with bad behavior during lotteries

- Potential: Creates rule to let winners repeat getting a prize every [insert time length]

- Potential: Unclaimed Prizes get dropped in to the AP for people to find. (Imagine finding that.)

- Maintains "Prize" Concept

 

8) Raffles

- Relies solely on chance for players to receive Prize Dragons

- No Longer active at the moment

- Tied to the Winter Holiday Events

- Led to the current situation of a near minuscule amount of players with total control of CB Prize Dragons and low lineage offspring

- Pushed the trading market in the favor of the few players with the CB Dragons

- Loss of breeding CB Prizes from Scroll Burning (multi-scrollers), Frozen Dragons, Released Dragons, Unclaimed Prizes, In-active Players, etc. have an incredible effect on number of CB Prizes and Low gen offspring due to the low number of dragons handed out by this mechanism

- Tends to bring out a toxic atmosphere amongst the playerbase that pits winners against losers

- Maintains "Prize" Concept

- A Very disliked option

- VERY.

 

Honorable Mention

9) Any one of the above

- Players that just want CB Prizes in some way or form and don't care too much about the method.

 

--

 

Anything I am missing? Any suggestions on changing the order?

 

Note: This order is not my personal order, but just from what I got from following the thread.

- Numbers 1 and 2 look most liked to me, while Numbers 6, 7, and 8 look most disliked.

- Numbers 3 through 5 are not nearly as clear as which one is more disliked than the other.

 

--

Feel free to update the list. I stopped paying attention to this thread, after awhile.

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I would have been completely fine with prize dragons if they were unbreedables. That way even though they were something not everyone could get, the people who have them couldn't gain massively just from having them

There would be much less drama, if they couldn't breed. "Prizes" would simply be DC trivia like IHOP and Missingno. Yes, people would ask occasionally why they can't get one, but it wouldn't be a big deal.

 

Unfortunately, hind sight is 20/20 and it is too late to change the fact that they've been breed-able for six years now. :/ So, a solution must be found.

 

I'm in the, "will take anything, even raffles returning" group. Not that I ever expected to win, so was never really disappointed that I didn't. I was more "disappointed" that we didn't get a list of the top voted 200 trees in 2010 that TJ had to narrow down. I wanted to know if mine/any of the ones I liked made the short list. Oh well.

 

Biggest argument I see with raffles, is give more out. the tree contest had over 9000 entrys and only 30 total given out? (5 gold, 10 silver, and 15 bronze) that is a large part of the problem. The last raffle had much more reasonable numbers (and was the only one that did) but it was still just a drop in the bucket.

 

Cave drops, have their own issue, but is the least amount of work for TJ and mods/event writers. at most, it requires changing the descriptions. This is a big plus IMO because it leaves TJ with more time to spend doing other things,

both real life and other much more needed updates to the site.

 

The store sounds nice, I admit to not following that thread though so I have no idea exactly how it works other than the few brief explanations here. But it is a lot of coding and that sounds like a lot of not fun/ good reason it will never happen as just too much time/effort. :/

Edited by DragonLady86

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I just thought about a little something. Drama dragons definitely should've been unbreedable, but that's obviously too late to change now.

 

But what would you guys think if they suddenly became unbreedable? Like, starting from tomorrow the Drama dragons could no longer produce other Drama dragons or be utterly and completely unable to breed. With or without a lore reason why.

 

I'm not saying this should not happen, of course. I'm just asking out of curiosity.

#stillsupportingthestore

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I just thought about a little something. Drama dragons definitely should've been unbreedable, but that's obviously too late to change now.

 

But what would you guys think if they suddenly became unbreedable? Like, starting from tomorrow the Drama dragons could no longer produce other Drama dragons or be utterly and completely unable to breed. With or without a lore reason why.

 

I'm not saying this should not happen, of course. I'm just asking out of curiosity.

#stillsupportingthestore

Oh heck no. It has been SIX years of breeding. People build tons of lineages with them. You think there is drama now? OMG, I can see the forums blowing up over that. That's the kind of bad change that could turn off enough people to kill this site for everyone. So, yes too late to change!

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I just thought about a little something. Drama dragons definitely should've been unbreedable, but that's obviously too late to change now.

 

But what would you guys think if they suddenly became unbreedable? Like, starting from tomorrow the Drama dragons could no longer produce other Drama dragons or be utterly and completely unable to breed. With or without a lore reason why.

 

I'm not saying this should not happen, of course. I'm just asking out of curiosity.

#stillsupportingthestore

The only advantage I can see with that is completely obliterating the current trade market. But even my massive distaste for how things currently are isn't enough to make me want this.

 

Absolutely no support for making them unbreedable... and frankly, even if they had been unbreedable, I don't think there would be any less drama. Instead of 'why can't I have a CB too?' it would be 'why can't I get one of those at all?'

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That would be just like the retirement of old pinks and frills. And even though those were commons, there was quite a bit of drama around it. (At least for frills.) And countless people unhappy because they couldn't get them.

 

Besides, it would be highly unfair to new players to make Dramas completely unavailable when some of us have hundreds of these shinies on their respective scrolls. Never retire a breed again, no matter what!

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Way too late to make them unbreedable. The reason people have been collecting the high-gens is largely for lineage purposes - you'd be cutting off loads of lineages in the process of being built.

 

Making them unbreedable from the get-go would have prevented a lot of this mess, but doing it now just makes things worse, even if it does have the effect of stopping the trade imbalance. Someone earlier on this thread brought up the Pandora's Box analogy; that's exactly the case here. It's too late to go back now.

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If you'll remember back to when the first Tinsels were given out NO ONE wanted them to be unbreedable. The screaming started even before people knew one way or the other.

 

Making them unbreedable would NOT have been the "solution" at the start. It would have made things worse than they are now.

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Making them unbreedable would have caused drama, and a lot of it - but not for years on end.

 

In any case, though, this discussion is futile. We cannot undo the breedability of Drama dragons, and nobody (I hope) wants them to be retired, either.

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If you'll remember back to when the first Tinsels were given out NO ONE wanted them to be unbreedable. The screaming started even before people knew one way or the other.

 

Making them unbreedable would NOT have been the "solution" at the start. It would have made things worse than they are now.

There would have been a lot of screaming then (in addition to the screaming that was already taking place, it was a noisy time), but I think in the long run, things would have been better. A dragon that can't breed is just on your scroll to look pretty. One that can breed... and is a breed almost nobody has... is the keys to the kingdom and lets you dominate the trading market indefinitely. Obviously I can't say anything for certainty with would-have-beens, but at least trades wouldn't have been this borked.

 

I mean, the reason everyone wanted them to be breedable was so that they could get them. But according to almost everyone on this thread, that's not good enough because they want CBs. So... in the long term, did that even make a difference on the 'give me one' front, beyond people getting bored with their new shiny and wanting the next step?

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