Action Menu Location Consistency

[Angelina Gienah]

First off, pictures of the four different menu layouts for reference:

 

 

Some things stay the same; kill is ALWAYS in the bottom right hand corner. (unless you have a breed specific action--nevermind!)

Other things move around: For the eggs, abandon is the top left option, hide is the top right. In the hatchlings, abandon is the top right option, and hide is on the right under freeze. Release, which is the adult form of abandon, is the bottom left option.

Naming changes around, though why it's available for the eggs is unclear.

Describing stays on the same side for hatchlings and adults, though unnecessary for unfrozen hatchlings, and then switches for those with BSAs

 

The main thing I've noticed issue with for myself is hide/abandon switching around, particularly in that top right slot between hatchlings and eggs. Those are probably the two actions I use the most, and I'll admit that I sometimes autopilot typing in my password (which switching to having to typing in the action would help with), and this has lead to me abandoning eggs by accident when I wanted to hide them. In addition, this holiday season I noticed multiple times that I'd be going to hide a hatchling and then I'd stop and wonder "wait, where'd it go?"

 

My suggestion was that perhaps there would be a way to make the layout a little more consistent somehow.

A couple options I've thought of:

 

1) We can have all of the egg options as the top four slots and then add down as they grow up to stay consistent in that way.

The top four would be abandon, hide, name and kill. Then freeze and describe would be added at the hatchling stage below the first four. Then at the adult stage, "abandon" becomes "release" and perhaps hide can be replaced by breed. Then all that needs to be added is the potential breed specific action, which would theoretically go below the other six.

 

2) We have all of the options there from the beginning, but we white out all but those which are usable to that stage of the dragon (like how name is whited out for the egg and describe is whited out for unfrozen hatchlings). This way has the advantage that things such as breed, which is one of the more used options, can be in say the top left corner from the beginning, but the location of other actions won't change based on it. Perhaps again here, hide can be turned into breed (replacing popular in egg and hatchling but unneeded in adults to popular with adults) and abandon can be turned into release (same thing, different name), The snag there is those with breed specific actions; I'd assume we'd not have a section whited out for those who don't have them, those with would just have their own menu as they are rather special, or it'd be added below the rest

 

 

 

I know this isn't something that is a huge deal, but I thought it'd help make life a little smoother for some. If anyone has any thoughts or suggestions feel free to throw them out.

 

Also sorry if this is a repeat; I looked but didn't see any other threads concerning this

Edited December 28, 2015 by Angelina Gienah

[Angelina Gienah]

~Reserve just in case~

 

 

 

also I may upload and post smaller pictures of the menus tomorrow so they're easier to compare

Edited December 28, 2015 by Angelina Gienah

[Pokemonfan13]

I agree that in principle stuff should move around as little as possible. This shouldn't be too hard to arrange between egg and hatchling. Abandon and Hide should stay put through the whole growing process, since they're the ones people use. Freeze can be added under the top left option rather than usurping the top left spot. The other actions it would be moving are not used as much--and only one is really there in the egg stage anyways--and so shouldn't be too problematic, but freeze does need to be relatively prominently placed.

 

However, the adult has to be in a different order since the actions that are important are very different.

 

Kill and Release should be as bottom as possible, since most of the time people do not go to their adults' actions page to do either action. Breed should be where it is. Maybe "BSA" should have a placeholder or be empty in non-BSA dragons? It's important for the dragons that have it, so it's placement is logical. What's annoying is the fact that it moves all the other actions around for dragons that have it, so the way to solve that would be to have that slot be filled by a placeholder or just plain empty on dragons without a BSA so the rest of the actions are in the same place for all adults.

Edited December 28, 2015 by Pokemonfan13

[olympe]

Personally, I prefer the placeholder idea, where everything that cannot be used at this stage of development is greyed out. Also, a greyed-out BSA action would be nice, especially if it informs the owner whether this breed will develop a BSA as an adult or not.

 

BSA: Only adult dragons of this breed will gain a breed-specific action.

BSA: This dragon breed does not have a BSA.

[Angelina Gienah]

What do you think of the idea of the "Hide" slot turning into the "Breed" slot since those are both important for their stages of development and never overlap?

 

I'm ok with the idea of a BSA slot for everyone and it just being grayed out for most.

 

I agree that Kill should always be near the bottom.

Should Abandon/Release be like Hide/Breed as far as replacing goes? They are essentially the same thing. Perhaps that one can go towards the middle since its used a lot in earlier stages but not for later? Or perhaps it can just always stay at the bottom. That's fair too.

 

So perhaps it can go (and I'll make a pretty mocked up version of this later)

 

Hide/Breed.............BSA

Name/Rename.......Describe

Abandon/Release....Kill

[SkyMet]

Thank you; I've been meaning to start a post to the same effect, but never got around to making it.

 

When you're on a roll and trying to hide a lot of stuff, it gets confusing to have the action buttons be different places for eggs and hatchlings.

 

I'm a very spatial person. I remember where things are; I can memorize maps fairly easily. Reading words takes longer, so I'm more likely to just click the action button that's in the same place as the last thing I hid than take a moment to read it to make sure what I'm actually clicking on. Just move "freeze" to be after "hide," and I'm be good to go.

 

 

[Fuzzbucket]

How about this - and when it's an egg or hatchie BSA can become hide - as you can't use hide on adults or BSAs on hatchies....

 

 

And instead of the BSA text, if there is one, a red (for instance) would have Incubate instead of the "word" BSA... And the actions get more "dangerous going downwards !

Edited December 28, 2015 by fuzzbucket

[Ha-Ki]

Support for more consistency - when I hide my growing things, I often get confused between eggs and hatchies. It would already help a lot if freeze went further down on the hatchie action page, so abandon and hide are in the same place for both eggs and hatchies.

[Fuzzbucket]

Well, using my template, freeze could go in place of describe, as you can't describe a hatchie till it's frozen either.

 

Eggs are less of a problem, I think ?

[Pokemonfan13]

I really don't think it's critical to have parity between eggs/hatchlings and adults. It's more important that the position of the actions of adults and eggs/hatchlings be logical than they match each other, since so many of the actions are different anyways. What is important is the position of often used actions not change between egg and hatchling stage, and that the BSA not move actions around on adults.

 

The adults page is pretty much already right on BSA dragons. Just add a BSA placeholder for the rest and it's all good. Name should be more prominent than Describe, since more people name/rename their dragons than describe them.

 

My preferred method for eggs/hatchlings:

Eggs:

Abandon ---- Hide

Name -------- Kill

 

Hatchlings:

Abandon ---- Hide

Freeze ------ Name

Describe ---- Kill

 

Another way to handle it:

Eggs:

Freeze ------- Hide

Abandon ---- Name

Kill

 

Hatchlings:

Freeze ------- Hide

Abandon ---- Name

Describe ---- Kill

 

With freeze grayed out like Name in the egg page. It makes as much sense as having a Name placeholder on the egg page, and allows a minimum of movement on egg/hatchling. Downside is having a non-usable action as the first on eggs and moving the eggs actions around from what they are now.

 

If name MUST not move between hatchlings and adults:

Abandon ---- Hide

Name -------- Kill

 

Hatchlings:

Abandon ---- Hide

Name -------- Freeze

Describe ---- Kill

 

But I think freeze needs to be more prominent than that. It's a hatchling only action and so needs to be as prominent as can be arranged, and if people are bothered by Name moving around they can wait until adulthood to name. It also doesn't help frozen hatchlings, since the only way to have name not move up into the hide slot would be to have hide there but grayed out or move something else like describe there instead. Or not have abandon there at all and have everything just moved up one, but abandon was included for good reason, to avoid questions of "where'd my abandon go!!!!"

Edited December 29, 2015 by Pokemonfan13

[Vrack]

While I think it'd be great if there were more consistency between different menus, I don't have any real idea what should be done or which idea mentioned above is best. So, count me as a vote for yes in this; however, don't expect me to come up with any great ideas.

[Angelina Gienah]

Are there any major cons anyone could foresee?

[Pokemonfan13]

The only con I see is if there is too much emphasis put on keeping the same layout for all three forms that results in a layout that has less utility in one or more forms.

[Moonlightelf]

Another minor con would be that it might take bit to get used to, given that some have gone through these actions for 7-8 years. But that's pretty much minor thing and like some other features have shown, people get used to it eventually.

 

I fully support this. And especially like how Pokemonfan13 and fuzzbucket have arranged them.

Edited January 5, 2016 by Moonlightelf

[Fuzzbucket]

I really don't think it's critical to have parity between eggs/hatchlings and adults.  It's more important that the position of the actions of adults and eggs/hatchlings be logical than they match each other, since so many of the actions are different anyways.  What is important is the position of often used actions not change between egg and hatchling stage, and that the BSA not move actions around on adults.

 

The adults page is pretty much already right on BSA dragons.  Just add a BSA placeholder for the rest and it's all good.  Name should be more prominent than Describe, since more people name/rename their dragons than describe them.

 

My preferred method for eggs/hatchlings:

Eggs:

Abandon ---- Hide

Name -------- Kill

 

Hatchlings:

Abandon ---- Hide

Freeze ------ Name

Describe ---- Kill

 

Another way to handle it:

Eggs:

Freeze ------- Hide

Abandon ---- Name

Kill

 

Hatchlings:

Freeze ------- Hide

Abandon ---- Name

Describe ---- Kill

 

With freeze grayed out like Name in the egg page.  It makes as much sense as having a Name placeholder on the egg page, and allows a minimum of movement on egg/hatchling.  Downside is having a non-usable action as the first on eggs and moving the eggs actions around from what they are now.

 

If name MUST not move between hatchlings and adults:

Abandon ---- Hide

Name -------- Kill

 

Hatchlings:

Abandon ---- Hide

Name -------- Freeze

Describe ---- Kill

 

But I think freeze needs to be more prominent than that.  It's a hatchling only action and so needs to be as prominent as can be arranged, and if people are bothered by Name moving around they can wait until adulthood to name.  It also doesn't help frozen hatchlings, since the only way to have name not move up into the hide slot would be to have hide there but grayed out or move something else like describe there instead.  Or not have abandon there at all and have everything just moved up one, but abandon was included for good reason, to avoid questions of "where'd my abandon go!!!!"

Well, the egg page works by your "rule" as it stands - and I can't see a need for consistency with hatchies.

 

So how would this be ? (I do think SEEING helps !)

 

 

AS for moving - they DOD move not long ago - that was why this thread was started, wasn't it ?

[Angelina Gienah]

Just bumping this as something that would still be nice to see developed and implemented--as I still am living in fear of abandoning by accident when I'm trying to fog >.>

[NotBambi]

Personally I would prefer the Actions ordered by danger. As in, the less dangerous ones first. For example, with the hatchies, having "Name" and "Hide" first, "Kill" last.

[Angelina Gienah]

Bumping again, as I'm once again getting frustrated when I go to name a grown red "oh wait it's down here because incubate is up there for them ok--now name the hatchie--now where did that action go?"

 

I think I'm personally for having all options there and just whiting out the ones not available. We already have eggs unable to be named and unfrozen hatchling unable to be described so might as well just have the same consistent spread and a lot of them will also have "this dragon does not have a breed specific action"

Edited January 7, 2017 by Angelina Gienah

[SkyWolf25]

I wouldn't really care about the arranging as long as 'name' is first and BSA is second(for BSA dragons) the way they are now, but I'm against the BSA action being there for non-BSA dragons. It makes the actions page uselessly messier imo. I'd rather have the other actions be in different locations than to have that tacked on. :0

[Zeditha]

I like the idea, but I'm unsure about what order would work best, especially in adults.

 

It's true that I have so often had the problem of opening every BSA page when I go on a naming spree. Name should stay where it is, in the top right corner, easily accessible.

But then, that's where the BSA goes. Putting the BSA slot anywhere else would be silly, because that's the most important thing for a BSA dragon, hence it should be in the most prominent slot.

But a placeholder slot is most definitely NOT as important as actions such as name, and shouldn't take up such a prominent slot.

And then, if the placeholder were in a different place than the BSA, we'd just have the same problem all over again!

 

I do think that putting Name below the BSA action/placeholder would be the best way to go, since that's where it is in hatchies.

I agree that actions like Kill and Freeze and Abandon/Release should be placed towards the bottom.

[olympe]

How about this, for eggs, hatchies and adults:

left column:

• Hide/Unhide (for growing things) / Breed (for adults, grayed out for frozen hatchlings and unbreedables) because they're probably the most common actions performed.
• Name/Rename; grayed out for eggs
• Describe; grayed out for eggs and unfrozen hatchlings

Right column:

• BSA; for adults, either with the name of the BSA (if applicable) or some informative text stating that this breed does not have a BSA / Freeze for hatchlings (grayed out for eggs?)
• Abandon (for growing things) / Release (for adults / frozen hatchlings) => both mean that the dragon in question is gone from your scroll, so es
• Kill for the living / Revive for the dead => most 'dangerous' action that can be performed, and it makes sense to replace Kill with Revive since only one of those can ever be used.

Did I miss any?

Anyway, this way, the most common actions are the easiest to reach, actions stay in place, no matter which stage the dragon is in. Release replaces Abandon, which is similar in its result, and Revive replaces Kill (if applicable). BSA and Freeze are mutually exclusive, too, and may go in the same place for that reason.

[Pokemonfan13]

As I've said before, I really don't think they need to be continuous between growing things and adults, especially since so many of the actions are completely different. What is more important is having a design that doesn't shift anything around between egg and hatchling stage, and having some way to keep the fact or lack of a BSA from completely shifting the placement of the adult actions. Along with making the orders of everything as logical as possible.

 

I'm not sure what is objectionable about having a BSA placeholder. If you get in the habit of Name always being just under Breed, that isn't really any worse a position than to the right of Breed. I can't think of any other way to solve the problem of the BSA action making it less intuitive to perform other actions on BSA dragons that would keep the BSA action as prominent as it should be.

[olympe]

Maybe these actions don't need to be in the same place for every imaginable stage - but is there any reason to not keep them in place? Especially if the actions that (kind of) share a place are mutually exclusive...

[Pokemonfan13]

If there is a workable arrangement sure, but I don't particularly like yours. Abandon is a key action for eggs and hatchlings. Probably the one I use most. And you have it down on the second tier. Basically, I think the current order for eggs is essentially perfect for them, and then you work the rest in around that, keeping things moving around as little as possible. (it might work to switch abandon and hide if people really really don't want abandon in the first spot. But people are used to that ordering, so I think it's better to not change it if we don't have to)

 

This is the one I came up with for not having name move, with adult stuff added for reference

 

Egg:

Abandon ---- Hide

Name ------- Kill

 

Hatchlings:

Abandon ---- Hide

Name ------- Freeze

Describe ---- Kill

 

Adult:

Breed ------- BSA (grayed out or blank on non BSA dragons)

Name ------- Describe

Kill ---------- Release

 

Describe and kill move, but name doesn't, and the rest are different between growing things and adults. I'm not a huge fan of this ordering because it pushes freeze down to the right side of the second tier, but that's what needs to happen for name and abandon and hide to not move. Abandon and Hide are good where they are for eggs, and if they're to not move freeze can't displace them as it does now.

 

 

This is the ordering I like best for growing things, with the adult order staying the same except for a BSA placeholder

 

Abandon ---- Hide

Name ------- Kill

 

Hatchlings:

Abandon ---- Hide

Freeze ------ Name

Describe ---- Kill

 

The important actions of abandon and hide stay the same. Freeze is still decently prominent but less likely to be done accidentally by people trying to abandon. Name is slightly less prominent, but it's not as important as abandon and hide and freeze for eggs and hatchlings.

Edited January 8, 2017 by Pokemonfan13

[diaveborn]

Personally I love the idea of having placeholders and having everything, (ideally eggs and adults both, but I'd be okay with them being separate) be in the same place. Having to move my mouse more for actions I do more still would make me personally spend less time when I am not having to take the time to think as much about where to move the mouse to.