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So if "some" parts of the Bible "might" be stories or exaggerations... how do you decide what's real and what's not? O.o why even use the Bible anymore? When you start picking and choosing pieces of it, why use it instead of formulating your own beliefs completely independently from a book you believe to be outdated and erroneous? That's effectively what Benjamin Franklin did. He didn't agree with much of the Bible, and after deciding pure deism wasn't pragmatic, he just developed his own moral system separate from the Bible.

I completely and utterly agree with this. If we ever meet, I would like to shake your hand.

 

But to me, ascribing to the Christian faith means ascribing to all of it. Picking and choosing pieces of the Bible to believe and disbelieve negates that. It completely ignores certain scriptures for the sake of what the individual thinks is right, purely based on feeling, which is a little different than minor doctrinal differences between denominations. For instance, arguing about whether or not baptism should be by sprinkling or immersion is not as large of a gap as arguing about whether or not Christ actually rose from the dead.

 

I also agree with this. What gives an individual the right to determine which parts of 'God's word' they are allowed to take out and forget about. Much of the Old Testament is, quite frankly, disgusting. The different 'crimes' for stoning people, such as stoning an un-married woman who does not agree to marry her rapist. Or the monetary value (12 silver pieces if I remember correctly) of a woman's virginity. If you look at Saudi Arabia and see how women are treated there in a way which is considered to be normal to them, then surely you cannot consider it moral. Albeit, they follow the teachings of the Qur'an but that is heavily based on the bible (Obviously with big chunks about Jesus being changed).

 

Noah's Flood is a story of god being disappointed with his living, breathing and conscious creations (Except one dude and his family) so he commits mass genocide and then leaves one dude and his family to repopulate the earth. Any biologist will know how devastating the bottleneck effect is. But aside from that fact, it is probably one of the most commonly taught stories TO CHILDREN. Along side, of course, if you do a bad thing you're going to burn in the eternal agonizing fires of hell.

Edited by Silens

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Personally, I believe radicals in any religion are what taints that religion's name. For example, I have a strong hatred towards certain Christian sects, because they encourage people to go around street corners and shout that "if you don't believe in my church, you'll go to hell." While I do believe that this sort of.....evangelical work is okay, it gets annoying when they constantly trail you around and even grab my arm to stop me from going wherever I'm going and make me listen to them. Not only that, but they've publically supported going to strong muslim countries and conducting missions, going to Buddhist temples and cutting off Buddha heads, etc...honestly it just tarnishes their image for the public.

 

I think that in the 21st century, no less, people can act with decency towards people of other faith, i.e accept that they might believe something else and go on, and anyone who's crossing that line, be it Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Zoroasterian, Atheist, etc, should seriously reconsider their beliefs.

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Ylang, I totally agree with you about having tolerance and modesty in religion, however the people that say "if you don't believe in my church, you'll go to hell" actually believe that stuff. They're not saying that to insult people (at least I hope not), they're saying it because they think you'll die a horrible death and be sent to a place where you'll suffer forever, and they're just trying to help. I guess it's hard for people like that to accept "no" for an answer when they think that.

 

Of course, this is just what I think is running through their heads, obviously I can't speak for an individual person's beliefs and I could be wrong.

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Ylang, I totally agree with you about having tolerance and modesty in religion, however the people that say "if you don't believe in my church, you'll go to hell" actually believe that stuff. They're not saying that to insult people (at least I hope not), they're saying it because they think you'll die a horrible death and be sent to a place where you'll suffer forever, and they're just trying to help. I guess it's hard for people like that to accept "no" for an answer when they think that.

 

Of course, this is just what I think is running through their heads, obviously I can't speak for an individual person's beliefs and I could be wrong.

Uh....I guess, but there's a difference between trying to help and grabbing you by the arm and pulling you away from wherever you were going. Not to mention that some of these sects are completely....deranged. :/ I don't know, I just don't like people forcing help down my throat. Different worldviews I guess.

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I still agree with you, I don't like..."forced help" either, and yes I know some people that are a bit...well..."too helpful", if you get what I mean. It's just that they get offended, I don't know how to say "no, I don't need your help" to them without sounding...I dunno...like a jerk?

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I still agree with you, I don't like..."forced help" either, and yes I know some people that are a bit...well..."too helpful", if you get what I mean. It's just that they get offended, I don't know how to say "no, I don't need your help" to them without sounding...I dunno...like a jerk?

I know...........but it gets to the point where I feel as if they're looking at me like a baby "oh she can't make judgements by herself, tee hee!" and that, to be frank, infuriates me.

 

I just ignore them now :/

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From what I see, it's generally the loudest Christians who cause such a reputation for the group (same for other religions), and they're by no means the majority (in general). But there are more atheists who behave that way, but I wonder if they behave that way in response to the expected behavior of the Christians who get the most attention for their loudness?

Being that I'm in the UK... thy don't really have that expectation for behaviour of Christians over here. I've always found the very loud, very preachy Christians to be pretty rare this side of the pond (for which I am eternally greatful).

 

Its just a sample bias. Atheists don't really have anything to say that isn't a negative. This is why you perceive more of them as rude etc. While Christians can talk all about what they do on Sunday, how can you talk about what you don't do on a Sunday? The only thing to do is to talk about how they don't agree with things, which people don't like to hear.

 

From my point of view it's more that most of them revert to ridicule (like starting to talk about 'invisible sky people') that I percieve as rude. I don't really find someone challenging my beliefs on a scientific level to be problematic. It's the ridiculing of the idea of a God(s) that I (and most other people of faith, Christian or no) find offensive.

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Ylang, I totally agree with you about having tolerance and modesty in religion, however the people that say "if you don't believe in my church, you'll go to hell" actually believe that stuff. They're not saying that to insult people (at least I hope not), they're saying it because they think you'll die a horrible death and be sent to a place where you'll suffer forever, and they're just trying to help. I guess it's hard for people like that to accept "no" for an answer when they think that.

 

Of course, this is just what I think is running through their heads, obviously I can't speak for an individual person's beliefs and I could be wrong.

Sometimes it might be out of sincerity, but I see the most common use of this statement being out of spite. It's seems to be used as the religious version of giving you the finger. I've even heard Christians saying they're going to enjoy watching someone burn in hell, less so in person but that's because the subject very rarely comes up.

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I know...........but it gets to the point where I feel as if they're looking at me like a baby "oh she can't make judgements by herself, tee hee!" and that, to be frank, infuriates me.

 

I just ignore them now :/

There is no reason for a considerate person who really does believe some terrible fate will befall another if they don't convert to then use that to grab you or condescend to you. That kind of behavior is intolerable and I don't find any reason to understand it.

 

I used to belong to a church (cult, actually) that had a very superior attitude and was quite aggressive about evangelizing. Based on that, I have a very low tolerance for people who are aggressively evangelistic (in its original sense of spreading the good message) in any capacity for any religion or philosophy and condescending as all hell in their attitudes about who follows what.

 

Of course I think I'm right, but I'd rather convince people of that in my life without hounding them.

 

Hey, Kai...you do do things on Sunday! Even if it's sleeping in, you do something. Steve Martin had a pretty hilarious song called Atheists Don't Have No Songs. I'd link it but the YouTube comments are intolerable and full of profanity.

 

I've had experience with the spiteful "You'll go to hell and I'll enjoy watching you burn!" people and the ridiculing "Religious people are incapable of rational thought" people (that last was a direct quote by a 'born-again' atheist...makes me wonder how they heard the good news in the first place if they were incapable of rational thought at the time...). Some atheists are on my crap list for being insufferably sexist and irrational, but I've also read a lot of atheist blogs that were pretty cool, so it's hardly a universal thing. Some atheists are obnoxious. Some theists are obnoxious. Vast majority of both aren't.

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Some atheists are obnoxious. Some theists are obnoxious. Vast majority of both aren't.

Could not have put that better myself. Oh and you can still link that youtube video if you do that "Youtube Repeat" thing.

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I'd like to ask, maybe this has been answered before...

 

Why is the term 'god-fearing' very popular? It's always struck me as odd that a good christain would be considered afraid of God. I thought He loved you all. Why would you fear, instead of loving Him back?

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I'd like to ask, maybe this has been answered before...

 

Why is the term 'god-fearing' very popular? It's always struck me as odd that a good christain would be considered afraid of God. I thought He loved you all. Why would you fear, instead of loving Him back?

Check out one of the definitions of 'fear': reverential awe, especially toward God: the fear of God. Synonyms: awe, respect, reverence, veneration.

 

It's a use of the word that's working on archaic but isn't quite there yet. That said: Perfect love drives out all fear.

Edited by Princess Artemis

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I'd like to ask, maybe this has been answered before...

 

Why is the term 'god-fearing' very popular? It's always struck me as odd that a good christain would be considered afraid of God. I thought He loved you all. Why would you fear, instead of loving Him back?

I think the term 'god-fearing' came about during the Dark Ages, where religion was the main means of keeping control over the masses. It's basically the 'if you do not repent you will all go to hell!' type of preaching, which was done to put the 'fear of god' into people, thus god-fearing Christians. I am also fairly certain that this 'method' of preaching was still very popular durng colonial times and still is, in certain sects of Christianity.

 

Edit: but don't take my word completely for it: history was never my strong suit...

Edited by Slaskia

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I think the term 'god-fearing' came about during the Dark Ages, where religion was the main means of keeping control over the masses. It's basically the 'if you do not repent you will all go to hell!' type of preaching, which was done to put the 'fear of god' into people, thus god-fearing Christians. I am also fairly certain that this 'method' of preaching was still very popular durng colonial times and still is, in certain sects of Christianity.

 

Edit: but don't take my word completely for it: history was never my strong suit...

Mmm I don't quite think so... What Princess Artemis said is pretty much it. One of the uses for "fear" is reverent awe. We don't use it much that way anymore, but that's what it's used as in that sense. I get what the connotation is though. If someone says gay nowadays, it usually doesn't mean happy. So God-fearing simply means showing great respect, awe, etc to your creator. It's actually used several different ways in the Bible, in connection to different things.

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I see, okay. Thanks. I guess I was looking at 'fear' in a way that it's used regularly nowadays (scary, afraid of, etc) than what it's been used as in the past.

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I see, okay. Thanks. I guess I was looking at 'fear' in a way that it's used regularly nowadays (scary, afraid of, etc) than what it's been used as in the past.

It's kind of like how Americans use "awesome!" to describe anything interesting, enjoyable, or impressive, when really, the original meaning meant that something inspired that kind of "fear" -- overwhelming, reverent awe and wonder. Awesome used to = God, Nature, the miracle of birth, the power of the common people when our voices unite... Now, awesome = cool! neato!

 

(Working abroad as an English teacher, you become more aware of these quirks that quickly reveal you as an American English-speaker. tongue.gif )

 

I would wager that there are probably several places in the Bible where God or creation is referred to as "awesome," in the old sense of the word.

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...religion was the main means of keeping control over the masses.

You know I've kind of noticed that sort of thing was much more common than I thought. It's kind of made me realise how religion can be sort of twisted and bent, like how the Russian Orthodox Churches sort of bent the bible to make the Tsar seem like a demi-god. I wonder if this is still happening today...?

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You know I've kind of noticed that sort of thing was much more common than I thought. It's kind of made me realise how religion can be sort of twisted and bent, like how the Russian Orthodox Churches sort of bent the bible to make the Tsar seem like a demi-god. I wonder if this is still happening today...?

Today, I kinda think of it as a branding issue. I'm not sure how many different denominations are in the US right now, but there are a LOT of different flavors of Christianity out there. And they all compete and say their way is the right way. But, I'm not sure to what extent other churches do it than my own. I was brought up Church of Christ. They had a disagreement and split into another church, Disciples of Christ. In service, it's all too common that the Church of Christ slips in little notes about the other being bad. How their way is the right way. Don't do the other.

 

The reason for the big split? Musical instruments during service. Yep. One side has instruments, the other does not. There is a newer disagreement over whether a kitchen should be allowed on Church premises. Very conservative Church of Christ don't like it, but southern people love their potlucks, so they grumble and get overruled.

 

But even so far as donating to an orphanage that another church already donates to, they won't do it. They try to stay as separate from each other as possible. They don't want the other church *stealing* their members. (As an example) My father was actually a Baptist and isn't picky about churches. My mother is the hardcore one. He switched for her sake when they got married. But one of my sisters switched Baptist after she was older, had kids, got married etc. Mom told her she was likely going to hell. /sigh

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Very likely. There is Christian Dominionism, but be very wise when you read on the subject. Many people use the term to describe any politically active Christian and spin wild conspiracy theories using it. It doesn't take much looking through the various Christian cults to realize there is a lot of control going on there (ETA: International Church of Christ was the one I was in, that's different!!! than Church of Christ...plus, I think it fell apart after one of the more influential members woke up, looked around, and said something loudly to everyone). And that's just speaking of Christianity--there are other religions out there that have been bent to control, and some that were used that way to begin with, and some philosophies to free from the control of religion that ended up being just as controlling.

 

If you look around and find that the ordinary people are more serfs than freemen, there's something out there trying and succeeding in controlling them.

Edited by Princess Artemis

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That depends on the denomination, very much so. Yes, each denomination believes they are "right." But often the denominational differences are very minor. Between baptists and Presbyterians you've got church government, baptism, alcohol, and the doctrine of election/predestination. However, the foundational beliefs in the inerrant nature of scripture, divinity of Christ, trinity, salvation by faith, etc etc are the same. The doctrinal differences are there, but it's not a source of contention for the most part. We have local Presbyterian and baptist churches that share services and such. So again, believing that you're right doesn't mean alienating everyone else that thinks a little different.

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Today, I kinda think of it as a branding issue. I'm not sure how many different denominations are in the US right now, but there are a LOT of different flavors of Christianity out there. And they all compete and say their way is the right way. But, I'm not sure to what extent other churches do it than my own. I was brought up Church of Christ. They had a disagreement and split into another church, Disciples of Christ. In service, it's all too common that the Church of Christ slips in little notes about the other being bad. How their way is the right way. Don't do the other.

 

The reason for the big split? Musical instruments during service. Yep. One side has instruments, the other does not. There is a newer disagreement over whether a kitchen should be allowed on Church premises. Very conservative Church of Christ don't like it, but southern people love their potlucks, so they grumble and get overruled.

I think part of it is a sort of "traditional" issue, as well. That is to say, Protestantism from its very roots was about splitting off from the "main" church -- and Protestantism went on to subdivide and subdivide. On the other hand, Catholicism has always by definition been about the idea of a unified church, and attempting via prayer and communication to reconcile differences. Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodox Catholicism still regularly attempt to find a way to unify, but are split on one, maybe two key points (whether or not the Holy Spirit counts as part of a Holy Trinity (i.e., is the Holy Spirit the same being as God, or is it something issuing from but less than God?), and... maybe something else?).

 

Musical instruments and kitchens? Those do seem like small points to go and have a major theological break over! Then again, there are such tiny differences between Amish sects in the U.S.A. -- like men not being allowed to wear suspenders versus being allowed to wear one suspender, or whether or not it's okay to dye the fabric of your buggy top, or if you have to wear only white shirts or only black bonnets.

 

I've been uncomfortable at almost every Protestant service I've been to, because they usually included some kind of comparison as to how their church was better than Catholicism -- they weren't promoting their specific Protestant denomination over others, as far as I could tell, but they were definitely making digs at the Catholic church. The Methodist services were fine, though. smile.gif More charismatic groups, like Sunday services at the Goodwill downtown where people put on skits and played rock songs they'd written about God, also tended to be the ones that made (often veiled) disparaging remarks about the Catholic church.

 

That's not to say that the Catholic church doesn't have its problems. It's been around a loooong time and been responsible for a whole host of awful stuff, and right now it's definitely in a state of crisis where it's desperate to get people to join the church. In general, though, I haven't heard Catholic sermons that knocked the other Christian sects. (I did ONE time -- well, it was even more about knocking non-Christians -- and I spoke with the priest about it afterwards, because it seemed completely unfair, unwelcoming, and counterproductive. Tense conversation...)

Edited by Kelkelen

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A while back I stumbled on this blog.

 

I find him fascinating, really, and was wondering what others think about how he goes about teaching the Word of God?

 

(Especially those more conservative Roman Catholics, since the ones on Tumblr seem fond of crying "Heretic!" when they find his stuff. Especially the stuff where he points out passages in the Bible that say to love people and calls them out on hating others, namely the LGBTQ community)

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I think that going out into the world and teaching what you believe in is a brilliant thing, so long as it is simply teaching. I am an atheist. Usually, I refrain from announcing my lack of belief in a deity to others because, ultimately, the conversation turns into someone trying to convert me over to their religion. While I enjoy an occasional lecture on the fact Jesus was not just a carpenter and often enjoy passover with my friends, I have no intention of changing my religion right now. If I do decide to, it will be on my own, without people pressuring me from all sides, saying I'm going to burn when I die.

But my point and opinion is that teaching religion is fine, so long everyone wants to listen. When you encounter people that really do not want to change from their religion, the person teaching should not pressure them anymore. The person on the receiving side usually gets rather annoyed.

 

So, how does your religion perceive atheists? From my experience, we usually get a bad rep because of our 'lack of religion'. I once had a bible thrown at me when I tried to back out of what was basically a bully session with someone trying desperately to convert me to their religion.

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So, how does your religion perceive atheists? From my experience, we usually get a bad rep because of our 'lack of religion'. I once had a bible thrown at me when I tried to back out of what was basically a bully session with someone trying desperately to convert me to their religion.

Honestly, I've never met a Wiccan who had a problem with atheists (and I've been practicing the religion for going on twenty years). This might have something to do with the common Wiccan attitude that (1) there's no need for personal salvation, (2) following our Gods is not something that everybody has to do, and (3) if our Gods want you for Their priest/ess, They're perfectly capable of calling you Themselves.

 

From that point of view, atheism has no spiritual disadvantages and it's easy to take a live-and-let-live attitude about it. The problems seem to arise with religions where proselytization is considered necessary to "save souls", and therefore the stakes involved when someone doesn't follow that particular religion's God are much higher.

 

I'm so sorry to hear you were mistreated. Nobody should have to put up with that kind of behaviour.

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A while back I stumbled on this blog.

 

I find him fascinating, really, and was wondering what others think about how he goes about teaching the Word of God?

I'll have to look a bit more, but so far, what I see is quite interesting.

 

So, how does your religion perceive atheists?

 

I'm a Christian, and my view is: Not my job to judge.

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