Changing how holidays behave

[pederino]

Many people are a bit annoyed by many things of holidays and valentines, some are the following:

• Very limited CB capacity (Only 2), and thus, very little desire to gift.
• Boring AP wall during a week (only breeds of that holiday season).
• Sitting new holiday breed during the last day of drop without availability to get other breeds.

And for halloween:

• Only one day to attend for the new breed, so if you miss that day you have to rely on someone else to gift or trade you one of theirs.
• Since there are no limits and only 1 day to get the new breed, it becomes very stressful because everyone is trying to get their fill of the new breed.

So, I propose that this festivities behave in a different manner:

 

NOTE: from now on "woliday" is the same as "winter holiday", and holiday is the same as "woliday", valentine and halloween.

 

For valentines and wolidays:

• New woliday/valentine dragon will still be obtainable during 3 days (from february 14 to 16 for valentines, and from december 25 to 27 for wolidays). During those 3 days non-holiday dragons are still obtainable (see below on "For all:" how this will be done).
• New woliday/valentine dragon CB limits is boosted to 4.
• There will be 4 days where the past woliday/valentine dragons will drop in the cave as very common (these 4 days will be the ones before the start of the new holiday breed is released, so: from february 10 to 13 for valentines, and december 21 to 24 for wolidays). During those 4 days non-holiday dragons are still obtainable (see below on "For all:" how this will be done).
• CB past woliday/valentine will have a set limit of 4 per year per breed.

For halloween:

• New halloween breed will be obtainable during 2 days (from october 30 to 31). During those 2 days non-holiday dragons are still obtainable (see below on "For all:" how this will be done).
• New halloween breed CB still has no limits.
• There will be 4 days where the past haloween dragons will drop in the cave as very common (from october 26 to 29). During those 4 days non-holiday dragons are still obtainable (see below on "For all:" how this will be done).

For all:

• The holiday breeding periods will extend to 2 weeks (which means, from february 1 to 16 for valentines, from october 16 to 31 for halloween, and from december 11 to 27 for wolidays).
• The refusals still do not apply to holiday/valentine/halloween dragons during their breeding season.
• The AP will divide into 2: one for holiday eggs, and another for non-holiday eggs from the start of the breeding season until there are no more eggs on the holiday AP, after that it will resume to its standard behaviour.
• The biomes will also divide into 2: one for past holiday eggs, and another for non-holiday eggs, during the dropping of past holiday breeds and the release of the new one.

Now lets see some pros and cons from this suggestion:

 

Pros

+Getting the new halloween egg will be less stressful with a 2 day drop.

+Ability to get  past holidays as CB.

+More flexibility on the woliday and valentine dragons concepts which now can be more likely to be male and female, or even getting new alternate forms like the Aegis without upsetting anyone because its limiting its CB capacity.

+Hopefully, this will give a more "gifting-spirit" to the site for the festivities since you can still mind your business and help others in theirs (Not that the site is full of "antigifting-spirit", but some have said they would think twice before gifting a CB or a 2nd Gen of the woliday and valentine dragons, not that they would not, just that they will think twice).

+Refusals out of season are less frightening as you can have a back-up.

+

 

Cons

-This will destroy the uniqueness and specialness of the holidays.

-Holiday dragons will lose value and specialness.

-2 weeks of any holiday may be too much.

-

 

Another suggestions:

• A full week drop of past holidays instead of just 4 days.
• Instead of the AP behaving like a normal AP during those months it will still behave as a holiday wall but with 1 or 2 lanes of non-holiday eggs.
• Make the biomes show 2 rows of 3 eggs, one for holidays and one for non-holidays, during the release of former holidays and new holidays, so people can still grab non-holiday if they want.

NOTE: the texts in blue are the things added or changed in the last edit.

Now, let the debate begin!

Edited January 7, 2016 by pederino

[olympe]

Against.

 

Against a limit of 6. 4 is fine. 8 is fine. No limit is fine. But 6 isn't. (No power of two.)

Against CB cave drops during the breeding week. It's busy enough as it is, and might actually harm the breeding period. Fine if the breeding week gets changed to a breeding month, although I'm not sure a month-long breeding period is needed.

Against lifting the limit on old CB holiday dragons. (Give everyone a chance, please!)

Against a 3-day release for Halloween (due to incubate). Let's make it two days instead.

Against doing away with the holiday wall in the AP. I prefer one line of non-holiday eggs, two at the most. (Or people without holidays of their own to breed will have to wait for several days before the first few holiday eggs turn up in the AP.)

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I'd love to see old CB Holidays available again someday, either as in cave drops, per this suggestion (although preferably a week long appearance), or as something we could buy from a shop / other in game currency feature. When that happens I agree that getting rid of the CB limit for past breeds makes sense. As far as CB limits for the original release goes, I'd rather see the limit either be four (so everyone can get the same amount regardless of trophy level) or eight (with a three day drop and four incubates, everyone can also get the same amount regardless of trophy level). Six seems like an odd middle ground.

 

I think I'd be against a month long breeding season, though. While I know full well how frantic breeding week can be (I plan out what to collect a month in advance, and no slot goes to waste!), I think that franticness is part of the fun. People come together and get hyped about DC holidays in a way that the site rarely sees otherwise, except for a couple days after a new release. If breeding was spread out over a whole month, I worry that energy and comradely would dilute similarly. I don't support mixing holiday eggs into the AP for this reason, but I think the suggestion of a non-holiday AP during breeding week is sensible.

 

Edit: Olympe raises a good point about CB limits being lifted for old breeds. Maybe after the first release people can only get up to two (four?) more CBs per breed each year, or half of whatever the original limit was. That allows people to keep collecting while also giving people a good incentive to be around during original releases (to get more faster than you can in later years), and gives newbies / slower players a bit of an easier time hunting.

Edited January 1, 2016 by angelicdragonpuppy

[olympe]

Maybe after the first release people can only get up to two (four?) more CBs per breed each year

Nah, that is *maths*, which the user-base in general is too stupid to understand. Remember?

 

Personally, I prefer a store, too.

Edited January 1, 2016 by olympe

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Nah, that is *maths*, which the user-base in general is too stupid to understand. Remember?

 

Personally, I prefer a store, too.

Lol. Still, I'd rather not see old users shackled just so they can't compete with new ones. 80% of the reason I want old holidays re-released is to help newer users, but I'm sure there's a way we can do so without condemning everyone to only ever have two CB old holidays too.

 

[olympe]

That's exactly why I like the store suggestion. No competition, just your (obviously limited) choice of what you do with your "funds", whatever they may be called.

[pederino]

Yes, I too thought 6 was weird, but it was in the middle so... *derp*. In any case I will still leave the possibility open, just in case.

Also a month is too much time, but at the same time I dont think is too much, it is plenty time to let people advance on their festivities lineages quite decently more (if they are lucky enough thats it), while at the same time giving enough space of time to not lose the festivities breeding season for people that for some reason couldnt log in during the breed season. It also helps with trading, so if you promised someone a ribbon dancer from earth you can still get him/her that and the next week breed your ribbon dancer with something else. Though yes, I dont know how much is really needed a month-long breeding season, if at all, maybe just extend it a bit more.

About the re-release of past holidays, well, I must admit thats a difficult thing, because there are some that are against, and others in favor. So I just dropped it there as a *just in case* scenario. But in any case, yes, a limit should be added for holiday and valentine to make sure everyone can get at least one, but what about halloween? should it also have a limit for past dragons? And how big the limit? (for the last question I vote 4) And for the 4 days drop instead of a week, well, I just thought about it like this: a 3 days drop for the new release + a 4 days drop for past releases = 7 days-drop of holiday releases; it can still be upped to a weeks drop of past holidays.

I will update the main post.

Edited January 1, 2016 by pederino

[olympe]

I know I suggested it in some other thread, but it got buried, so here goes nothing (again):

 

Stop the fixed breeding season for holiday dragons.

Instead, let all holidays get "charged" with one time of breeding true. If this holiday breeding happens during the week leading up to the holiday event, there's a chance of multi-clutching. However, this breeding can still be done up to 1 week later, but will result in only one egg.

 

(Of course, this could be replaced with a "BSA" for all holiday dragons that makes them breed true - a BSA only available during that time span.)

[Dianacat777]

I'm much fonder of the idea of a store than I am changing the way holidays work. But then again, I'm completely pleased with the way holidays currently work and don't think it should be changed for the sake of people pursuing lineages.

 

The only thing I'd support here is increasing the length of the Halloween drop to three days, like Christmas and Valentines. I don't see why the only holiday to have a short drop time is the one with no grab limit. Not the greatest combination.

[pederino]

I know I suggested it in some other thread, but it got buried, so here goes nothing (again):

 

Stop the fixed breeding season for holiday dragons.

Instead, let all holidays get "charged" with one time of breeding true. If this holiday breeding happens during the week leading up to the holiday event, there's a chance of multi-clutching. However, this breeding can still be done up to 1 week later, but will result in only one egg.

 

(Of course, this could be replaced with a "BSA" for all holiday dragons that makes them breed true - a BSA only available during that time span.)

Sorry, I didnt catch up the idea... You mean that the holiday dragons should breed true every now and then? or you mean only once every year? Could you extend a little more (you can send me a PM if you like).

 

Edit: Finally edited the main post.

Edited January 2, 2016 by pederino

[Obscure_Trash]

No month long breeding season. Therefore holiday eggs can stay at the front of the AP.

 

Halloween should stay at a one day drop. Two max, not three.

 

Hesitantly supporting the few days before the new release dropping old cb holidays. BUT also adding that in this case, the AP should definitely have a line or two of non-holidays showing under holiday dragons.

Edited January 2, 2016 by SockPuppet Strangler

[HeatherMarie]

I guess I'm in the minority, but I don't see much wrong with what we've got now. I, personally, think that having CB holidays is a special thing that you get when you take the time and effort to get them when they are released. I don't see why, other then lineages, CB past holidays should be available to everyone every year.

 

Honestly, a lot of these suggestions seem to be based around lineages, and as someone who doesn't care about lineages I have a hard time supporting changes this drastic just because of that.

[NotBambi]

I like pederino's suggestion but it could partially work if, and only if, several bullet points were implemented. For example, there is no way I would agree with reducing multi-clutch if the past holidays dragons did not drop in the cave etc.

If I understand correctly, the outcome of the suggestion would make consistent the mechanisms for Holidays, Valentine's and Halloweens. That makes sense. The exception would be for new CBs, still unlimited for Halloweens, up to 6 for the others. I would still prefer 8 instead of 6, to make life easier for lineage-breeders but, since I'm not one, I will leave that battle to them

What I do not like at all on the suggestion is the idea of having eggs in the clutches that are not Holiday/Valentine/Halloween. Please NO!

Edited January 2, 2016 by NotBambi

[Pokemonfan13]

I am strongly against the majority of your suggestion.

 

1. You mention the problem of sitting holidays preventing people from hunting other breeds without really giving a solution to it. Increasing the limit to 6 will not lead to 3 full days of hunting. Even with it being unlimited, the vast majority of people get what they want during the single day halloween drop as long as they actually come to pick up their eggs. You actually make the "only holidays" problem worse for halloween, since you increase the drop from 1 to 3 days. When I saw that as one of your points I expected you to suggest having special biomes for the holidays so the normal ones would still drop normal eggs, or something like that.

 

2. TJ specifically designed the holiday breeding season to be exactly one week so that each holiday dragon can breed true once a year. Increasing the time to a month would, granted, make CB holly owners very happy since they could trade as many as 5 (6?) times if they were careful about timing. However, making the holidays not be guaranteed to breed true is not a good idea. It would cause a flood of holidayXholiday (or other unbreedable) pairs from the ones that don't want to put up with the risk of not getting a holiday egg and a lot of frustrated users who stick true to their commonXholiday lineage projects and don't get the eggs they need. I think a month is also just plain too long. Many people get sick of a week of nothing but holidays, imagine the boredom with a full month.

 

3. Don't MIX holidays and non-holidays in the AP. This issue would be better solved by having two AP pages, the one reached by the AP link showing holidays and then another one reached by a link from the holiday filled AP that has the normal eggs. This prevents eggs from dying during the week, which they currently would unless TJ does something to save them, and allow people who don't want to get more holiday eggs to scour the AP for treasures and low time eggs. The AP used to act exactly as you described, and people were in an uproar about not being able to catch any bred holidays because so many regular eggs were in the way. They didn't WANT to catch the eggs they could get the rest of the year, they wanted the ones they could only find that week. There are a few exceptions, but they aren't enough to clear the AP to make room for the holiday eggs if they're all on the same page.

 

4. Past holidays as free handouts is a very controversial idea. Many people are only barely willing to tolerate them as being available in a "shop" where it would take a long time to earn the points necessary to "buy" them, and are very much against having them easily available as CBs. At the very least they shouldn't be unlimited, but should have the same limit as the rest. So IF the CB limit is increased to 6 as you propose, the CB limit for all former breeds would be increased to 6 as well. Otherwise you could very well end up with a problem where the most sought after breeds end up being hoarded by the really good catchers and the "rich" that can trade for them, while other users end up with nothing. The point of the holiday dragons is for everyone to get something nice, and this needs to be especially so if old holidays are made available in the cave. It is also unlikely to be a fun hunt at all, since the cave would be even more blocked than usual by the blockers (and even dragons that aren't normally blockers) since NOBODY would want to waste a slot on an egg they don't want to get the cave moving. The only way it would work is if a new biome (or a duplicate set of biomes?) was added for the duration of the old holiday drop for that purpose. The existing biomes would act as usual, dropping normal dragons and nothing but normal dragons.

 

5. A 3 day drop for halloweens is a really bad idea. It doesn't matter for the limited ones if the drop is long enough for people to hatch an early batch before the drop is over, since they can't catch any more anyways. It does matter for Halloweens, since suddenly it goes from a caught limit of 7, where you can only get more by trading hatchlings around, to a caught limit of 14. It also makes the difference between new players and experienced ones even more extreme, since the newbies have a catching limit of 4 and are unlikely to have the four available incubates needed to get to 8 before the drop ends. So that means 14 can be raised by the gold trophies, and most likely 4 by the newbies, which is really unfair. It also means that all collectors who want to get their maximum must lock themselves on the first day and then lock themselves again on the last day, leaving the middle day rather desolate in catchers. It's the day that all people who don't want to get the maximum should strategically hunt, but how many people aren't going to know that and needlessly compete on the frenzied first or third? And it would be a competition, much more so than the one day drop now, since there would be fewer eggs on each day because of the drop lasting a total of three.

 

If you change your mind about something based on comments, change the original post. It doesn't help to have a bad idea with a somewhat better idea underneath. It's the main part of the post people will pay attention to, which is why I responded to your idea as stated, not the blue section under it.

Edited January 2, 2016 by Pokemonfan13

[brevi]

I guess I'm in the minority, but I don't see much wrong with what we've got now. I, personally, think that having CB holidays is a special thing that you get when you take the time and effort to get them when they are released. I don't see why, other then lineages, CB past holidays should be available to everyone every year.

 

Honestly, a lot of these suggestions seem to be based around lineages, and as someone who doesn't care about lineages I have a hard time supporting changes this drastic just because of that.

I completely agree with you, I don't see much wrong with the system we have right now for holidays. As someone who really cares about lineages and nicely named parents, I enjoy trading, hunting, and working towards those lovely lineages.

I perfectly satisfied with how things are right now, but I am also open to the idea of expanding the CB Valentines and CB Holidays limit. However, not too onboard with the past CBs coming back even though i missed a lot of those releases.

 

EDIT: Editing to say that I agree with Pokemonfan's points. I also want to say that I support the CB Hollies that were distributed via raffle to the honorable mentions, I think that was a very good way to go about the decreasing number of hollies.

Edited January 2, 2016 by chrispy

[DragonNighthowler]

I guess I'm in the minority, but I don't see much wrong with what we've got now. I, personally, think that having CB holidays is a special thing that you get when you take the time and effort to get them when they are released. I don't see why, other then lineages, CB past holidays should be available to everyone every year.

 

Honestly, a lot of these suggestions seem to be based around lineages, and as someone who doesn't care about lineages I have a hard time supporting changes this drastic just because of that.

I'm someone who does care about lineages, and I agree with you. I think we're fine now. I make some small projects with holidays from time to time, I ruined one of them this year forgetting about the cursed solstice breeding patters (oh well, tough luck ), and yet I think things are fine now.

 

Edit to Add; Pokemonfan, you did bring some brilliant points to the discussion. Agree with you on everything.

Edited January 2, 2016 by DragonNighthowler

[NotBambi]

I could not care less about lineages but I care about at least one thing. As people leave the site, the pool of Holly CBs gets smaller and smaller; now this applies to Hollies and is already showing for Yulebucks, will not stop here. So I've a bit of a problem sympathizing with some people that whine about not getting anything worth keeping in the AP during the breeding week but still post about wanting to leave things as they are.

[cyradis4]

I could not care less about lineages but I care about at least one thing. As people leave the site, the pool of Holly CBs gets smaller and smaller; now this applies to Hollies and is already showing for Yulebucks, will not stop here. So I've a bit of a problem sympathizing with some people that whine about not getting anything worth keeping in the AP during the breeding week but still post about wanting to leave things as they are.

I care very much about lineages, but I do agree with your point about those complaining about the AP selection but want the status quo maintained. Personally, I'd love to have old CB Holidays available some how. The raffles did the Hollies a world of good! In fact, from what I've heard, 3/4ths of the active Hollies are from the HM raffles.

 

 

 

Now, on to the OP's idea:

While I agree that the various Holiday events could use some adjustments, for most of your points, there are separate threads already for them and I believe that the discussion in them on each topic is extensive, so I don't see a need to an in-depth comment here on them.

 

However, I am DEAD against mixed Holiday / regular clutches during the breeding season. Getting the right breeds with a regular dragon is already brutally hard. I've had more than one pair that threw 30+ eggs of one breed, before they finally produced one of the OTHER breed. So no, just no, do NOT want to deal with that headache in a limited breeding dragon.

 

Cheers!

C4.

 

[Dianacat777]

I guess I'm in the minority, but I don't see much wrong with what we've got now. I, personally, think that having CB holidays is a special thing that you get when you take the time and effort to get them when they are released. I don't see why, other then lineages, CB past holidays should be available to everyone every year.

 

Honestly, a lot of these suggestions seem to be based around lineages, and as someone who doesn't care about lineages I have a hard time supporting changes this drastic just because of that.

This is essentially how I feel. We can get old breeds of dragons - hollies aren't even difficult to obtain anymore. Completionism isn't a problem. Everyone can get everything. The only reason I can see somebody wanting a CB specifically instead of a bred is lineages, and... it's just a user constructed activity. I don't see why the site should be changed for that, especially when it's still totally doable now - just requires people to actually interact with each other instead of doing everything themselves.

 

Very much agree with most of what PF13 said, with my only disagreement being on the Halloween drop - but even then, I don't feel particularly strongly about it.

 

I like the way the cave functions now. I like holiday breeding. And I like the notion of CB holidays being at large limited to the people who were actually online for their specific event.

Edited January 2, 2016 by Dianacat777

[Obscure_Trash]

Collecting cbs isn't just for lineage builders. It's also for cave hunters and people who want to collect x amount of each dragon. When I first started, I wanted just one of each dragon. Anybody can use cbs.

 

When trees first came out they were originally only available for a few hours back in whatever year that was. Now we can get them anytime. Yet there were plenty of people around when original trees dropped and were against them re-dropping or being available all year round. But I haven't seen a whole lot of complaints against that. While I have reservations against releasing past cbs, it's mostly reservations against big cave changes, but I can't see a real reason to actually say no to it when there are plenty who would enjoy being able to get more cbs.

[Hawkster]

Against.

 

Personally agree with Marie19R. I do not really see that much wrong way it is now. However, even if there are some things that people might want to change, I do not agree with most of these nor see how it will solve lot of them either.

 

"Very Limited CB capacity" You suggest to increase, idea heard before, but to 6? I find it hard to accept increasing to 4, definitely dont like 6 (not counting that it really should be 4 than 8)

 

"Boring AP wall during week" You suggest AP behave normally giving priority to closest one to dieing. Hmm ok, yea that means you will see nothing but regular ones entire time. This doesnt fix it, it just reverses it so now everyone cant get Holidays.

 

Worse, now you want to make it last entire month. You were bored with it lasting whole week, but you want to increase it to whole month I can only speculate, but I would guess, the first several days up to first week, you will see nothing but non-holidays. Everyone will complain that whole first week since cant get bred holidays. After awhile the bred Holidays might start showing up, but once they do, now you will have several weeks of nothing but ALL holidays. So your suggestion would just make it worse overall for everyone, both ones bored seeing nothing but holidays as well ones that want to see nothing but holidays.

 

I have heard much better suggestions. Like for example top 1 or top 2 lines being non-holiday, rest only holiday. But DEFINITELY not entire month long.

 

"Sitting new holiday breeding w/out being able to get anything else" You suggest to increase drop from 1 day to 3 for all holidays That just makes it worse, now you have 3 days with nothing else to get from cave.

 

"Halloween - only one day to get new, so you cant miss that day" You suggest once again to increase to 3 days drop. Not only does this make your sitting new holiday being bored worse again (like I stated above). But NO NO NO NO! There are enough greedy people that collect as many as they can, so they can trade them to less unfortunate that were not around. Now you want to give them even more to collect and create even more greed. There will always be some that are not around and wanting to get them, which means there will always be incentive for those greedy to collect on. You do not need to give the greedy more.

 

"Halloween - no limit and only 1 day, becomes stressful" You suggest? Not sure if I am missing this or what, but not understanding how you intended to fix this. Cant see it being increasing the number of days, that just makes it stressful for longer, since are no limits. Only other suggestion for Halloween was regarding past Halloween to redrop 4 days, and that cant be it either. Someone else mentioned word Hectic, which to me is more accurate. Yes it is bit more hectic, but that is part of what makes it fun. If you or anyone finds it stressful, than you should play different game for day. This is supposed to be fun, not stressful.

 

Suggestion of re-releasing prior Holidays is sorry but a big NO from me. Sure I would love to have CB Shadow or all CB Valentines, numerous CB Holidays I wasnt around for. But this really would take the last bit of specialness out of it completely.

 

Suggestion reducing multiclutch. I am not seeing where that will make much an impact to offset your month long breeding since every Holiday dragon will now be bred lot more than one time.

It seems to me, although could be wrong, but 3 seems to be most common. You suggest to switch it around and make it 2. Sorry but 1 less but being bred 4 times as opposed to being bred one time just does not sound like enough decrease. It really needs to be even more down to 1 as most common to make offset .. or in other words eliminate multiclutch. The suggestion that multiclutch might also include non-holiday pair might work, except for cases where it Holiday x Holiday breeding. Although that might work in your goal of offsetting, I think you will find a lot of really upset people when they get common multiclutch of 2 and only 1 of those ends up being holiday.

 

So well done, you just annoyed many more people overall than are now

[Hawkster]

I could not care less about lineages but I care about at least one thing. As people leave the site, the pool of Holly CBs gets smaller and smaller; now this applies to Hollies and is already showing for Yulebucks, will not stop here. So I've a bit of a problem sympathizing with some people that whine about not getting anything worth keeping in the AP during the breeding week but still post about wanting to leave things as they are.

This doesnt ring true from what I seen. Holly contest had more prizes this year than ever, every year the number of donations has increased. So much so that this year, it had MORE holly donations than contestants.

 

Even in general trading threads, more people being so much pickier for their Holly too. It was only couple years ago, that a Holly, ANY holly someone would have jumped at chance no matter what looked like or lineage, not so this year.

[NotBambi]

So well done, you just annoyed many more people overall than are now

Sorry to disagree but people that put time and effort on creating suggestions are not the annoying ones. The ones that disagree "just because" or "just coz I don't like change" and never come up with an original one, those are the annoying, yawn-inducers ones.

[NotBambi]

This doesnt ring true from what I seen. Holly contest had more prizes this year than ever, every year the number of donations has increased. So much so that this year, it had MORE holly donations than contestants.

 

Even in general trading threads, more people being so much pickier for their Holly too. It was only couple years ago, that a Holly, ANY holly someone would have jumped at chance no matter what looked like or lineage, not so this year.

Sorry for the double post but this is a reply to a different one.

"Pickier"? No, they are not "pickier", they just want decently lineaged babies on their scrolls. And you just made my point.

Edited January 2, 2016 by NotBambi

[Hawkster]

Collecting cbs isn't just for lineage builders. It's also for cave hunters and people who want to collect x amount of each dragon. When I first started, I wanted just one of each dragon. Anybody can use cbs.

 

When trees first came out they were originally only available for a few hours back in whatever year that was. Now we can get them anytime. Yet there were plenty of people around when original trees dropped and were against them re-dropping or being available all year round. But I haven't seen a whole lot of complaints against that. While I have reservations against releasing past cbs, it's mostly reservations against big cave changes, but I can't see a real reason to actually say no to it when there are plenty who would enjoy being able to get more cbs.

I understand your point. But comparing non-breedable item like tree, is just quite not the same thing. If we were talking about chicken, or cheese, etc sure. But this is bit different. Not saying what you said isnt valid, just that I can see with this being bigger impact, you will prolly find lot more having longer lasting gripes. Is that real reason to say no, hmm debatable, I would say yes, but I can see how someone can also say no.