Posted February 25, 2016 (edited) So this was originally suggested only semi-seriously over here in the change how holidays work thread, and it didn't get terrible feedback. So, voila, new thread. o3o This thread is about getting rid of a limited holiday breeding season. If you want to discuss an extended breeding season, please discuss it over in this thread. So holiday lineages are very tough and slow because holidays only breed holidays once a year. But what if they could breed true all year long? New cbs would not be available except during that holiday season, as they are now. But released holidays could breed more holiday dragons any time of the year. Like other year-round breeding, holidays out of season would only produce one egg. Outcomes with partners would be: refusal, no interest, a holiday egg, or an egg of the other species (or a hybrid if holiday hybrids ever came out of this). There are some further ways to break this down: -Holidays can still breed multiclutches during their holiday season where holiday eggs are guaranteed for pairs that produce (spreading the joy during the season and all that) -Holiday multiclutches go away and holidays are only marked with a limited time release and (possible) event -Holiday multiclutches go away but holidays breed true during the holiday season -Holidays breed true except during off holidays (ie a VDay dragon couldn't breed VDays during Halloween or Xmas) Another possibility is that the chances of producing a holiday out of season is low (but not rare/impossible). This would perhaps be the best route to go if people would like to keep holiday multiclutches as a thing. If people are okay with doing away with multiclutches, then chances of producing a holiday out of season could be higher. As for how refusals could be handled, there are a few ways to do this as well: -Remove refusals completely, negating this conversation -Keep the mechanic to have refusals reversed during the typical holiday season -Have refusals reversed all year long (probably makes the post sense if the outcome of a holiday during the year is low) -Have them react like other dragons with the typical possibility of refusal As for changing this making holidays "not special". Holidays would still be special: cbs would still be limited and still only be released once ever, during their first holiday season. Holidays in this sense would work similar to prizes, which we still consider special due to their limited-ness. Holidays would be similar in the same sense as prizes, as they are both limited releases that none can get cbs for again. As well, AGYK has brought up that, due to scroll limits and the growing number of holiday dragons for one holiday, breeding for multiple lines will quickly become near impossible to impossible. Having some chance, even small, that holiday lines could be continued out of season would help in being able to continue lineages past 2nd gen. Concerns that were brought up in the previous thread: Pederino I like the idea overall, but it can be kind of complex. On one hand you have the ability to get bred holidays any time of the year, on the other you have more possibilities of not getting a breed when pairing a non-holiday with a holiday out of its season (at the moment it either fails, refuses or gets you the non- holiday; now you would have to add the holiday to the mix). On one hand you have more control over the offspring of your dragons, on the other new players may have a hard time getting specific lineage of holidays, and even messy holidays may be high-priced as there is no other way to get the sprite other than breeding it (multiclutches exist because they breed true only during a week plus 1 or 3 days). For issue number one there are very few solutions, being one of them a BSA that favours a dragon over the other when breeding, and still being stackable with Fertility. For issue number 2 there are a few solutions; you can make them breed multiclutches of holidays during the holiday week, but this will just lessen the problem, or keep them multiclutching outside of season sometimes (this brings another issue: AP will fill with holidays eggs quite easily, and making a holiday wall on july would be easy even if you have just a few holidays), or make CBs of older holidays drop during the full actual breeding week of its season. And those are the issues and solutions that came to my head. Edited March 25, 2016 by SockPuppet Strangler Share this post Link to post
Posted February 25, 2016 No support. I like that we have breeds with breeding seasons. I find myself to be most active during holiday breeding, hunting things in the AP, and would be very sad to lose that fun time of year entirely. Share this post Link to post
Posted February 25, 2016 While it would totally be useful--I'm still kicking myself for forgetting to get some bred Halloweens last time I needed--I gotta say I'm against it. I like having a season where they'll breed plentifully, and that if I'm really trying for a specific egg for whatever reason I can pair another dragon to a holiday out of season and if they give an egg it's guaranteed to be what I wanted, rather than adding "wrong breed" into the mix of possible failures. Share this post Link to post
Posted February 25, 2016 Holidays are actually my least favorite times. As a grad student looking to continue being a grad student, holidays are some of my busiest times because deadlines tend to be around holidays. As well, holidays also tend to congregate around times I travel, either for school or to see family. I just haven't had the time to seriously play DC these days, and it's particularly bad around the holidays. Breeding is actually a time consuming task, never mind catching (mostly Halloween, where they're unlimited) and the holiday as well. As well, the Help section is always busier during holidays, so modding takes up more time as well (and I sometimes end up missing sleep because I'm trying to sort stuff out to help users when things glitch and keep the section from getting overwhelmed). So holidays are stressful. It's pretty much only work on one lineage with a holiday in it or none, and if I work on none, I have less pretty things to breed and less pretty things I want to breed. Being able to breed year round would cut down on my stress and tension. As well, for me, it would make holidays lineages plain more fun to make and to collect. I feel like I'd see more holiday checkers in the AP as well - and not just during holidays, and as I love checkers, this is a bonus for me. And as they'd be reasonably continue-able if holidays could breed all year round, they'd also be more fun to pick up. (I don't collect many gold or silver checkers because I see them more than anything else and get bored of them AND I only have like one cb of each gender of them, and can't even think about continuing the line. It'd be nice to see a little more variety offered in the AP and perhaps opening up holiday breeding could help with this.) I know not everybody is in a situation similar to me, but here are some of my reasons for liking this idea the more I sit and stew on it. Share this post Link to post
Posted February 25, 2016 Instinctive response - aw heck no. But after thinking about it, I actually am not opposed. There are a ton of pretty holiday lineages, and the current state of affairs makes it very difficult to build those lineages. You can only breed holidays for a week out of the year, meaning maximum one generation of progress per year on an even-gen. I wouldn't be opposed to the ability to build those lineages more quickly (and with refusals causing less devastation). This would also solve the AP backlog issue that's been repeatedly lamented. The backlog is caused by compressing hundreds of breedings into one week - remove the reason for all those compressed breedings and suddenly the backlog might drop. Perhaps holidays could be guaranteed to breed true within their holiday week, and the rest of the year they breed like normal dragons? That might maintain some of the "specialness" of the holiday week, guarantee breedings on the day of the holiday for players who care about dates, and allows them to be treated like normals the rest of the year. Obviously I don't know how breeding works, but perhaps only the mate's ratio could be taken into account when determining the breed of egg produced. (That does leave Holiday x Holiday undetermined.) Share this post Link to post
Posted February 25, 2016 To me, seeing a Christmas egg that was bred in July just feels wrong. But regarding stress, I totally get your point. Maybe extending the breeding period to a month or so would be an option? Share this post Link to post
Posted February 25, 2016 Maybe extending the breeding period to a month or so would be an option? That's kinda what the change how holiday breeding works thread is suggesting/discussing. Share this post Link to post
Posted February 25, 2016 IF this were to happen - and I'm not keen - would the "no holiday refusals in season" hold up ? If not - I am 1000% against, as that is SO useful. Share this post Link to post
Posted February 25, 2016 IF this were to happen - and I'm not keen - would the "no holiday refusals in season" hold up ? If not - I am 1000% against, as that is SO useful. Very true indeed. Then again, this mechanism is only there due to the very limited time of being able to breed more holidays, so it might need to go for extended breeding. *shrugs* Share this post Link to post
Posted February 25, 2016 (edited) 100% SUPPORT! I'm for keeping the holiday period as it always was with the multiclutches, no refusals and stuff. (but would rather saccrifice this for holidays breeding true all year round, though would prefer to combine both) And I'm entirely, with all my heart FOR holidays breeding true all year round without the multiclutches out of holiday season, with a lower chance of getting a holiday egg unless both dragons belong to the same holiday type, then the chance would be obviously higher(just as it is with e.g. prizes) and in AP, the holiday eggs could behave like regular breeds all year round only exept the holiday season. I personally need holidays breed more often than just once a year as I need 4 frozens (MF and both S1s) bred from my own holiday couples and this means it can take me even 6 years to get the family done which is riddiculus (because MF breeds need 2 years to both appear in the cave and be able to breed for the first time because 1st X-only breed appears then 1 year later the Y-only breed appears and that 2nd breed needs 1 year cooldown before it's bred (with a holiday) and then I need up to 4 breedings to get all their offspring unless the catchers of the auto APed eggs from the clutches are kind enough to return 'my' eggs which won't be that likely once my couples became perfect checkers and 2gens only while before they were not and were pretty useles for any lineage projects) and BTW because of this riddiculusly long time, I'm freezing random-lined AP holidays just for placeholding (after I get my own, I release those placeholders) which means that by all recently released breeds I'm literally wasting 2gens(which I bet angers quite a few of the players who bred them)! (like eg. https://dragcave.net/lineage/L1iXN https://dragcave.net/lineage/8Lp8e https://dragcave.net/lineage/MTMzk - all these 3 are placeholders for my own Mistletoe offspring... 3 because the male was just introduced and this Christmas I had to get a pair of 2 2gens instead of using my CB) It would be better for other players if I didn't waste so many pretty dragons I haven't even bred myself from my own dragons. I'm even considering wasting the CB Halloweens:/ you know, grabbing 5, raising 2MF, and freezing the other 3 for placeholding sooner, so the adults are not alone for entire year (while being sorted between regular breeds in full families already; I sort by breed's release order unless it's a one-gender breed - those go to the end not to disturb the look of my scroll). Waste, waste, waste... And I'm also sympathysing with all pleayers who want to build lineages with holidays (but not necessairly paired to same-holiday type), like e.g. holidayXnon-holiday checkers, HolidayAxHolidayB checkers etc... They can breed the non-holiday mates all year along but they can get only 1 holiday mate a year... or in case of the 2nd they can breed only 1 of both in entire year(I mean 1 because they can keep only 1 from the clutch). It's very sad. And even sadder is to see players who love some holiday sprite but decide not to make any lineage with it just because it can breed true only once a year... Also I'd much more likely share the offspring from my 'PB' holidays as I'd need maybe like 2 months to breed all 4 frozens and then I could breed for others. And I wouldn't be chasing down to get my auto AP-ed eggs from the holiday clutch (which I do every year for all 3 holidays, including tryign to guess the forum name of the catcher if they don't PM me on their own...). and as Sock said, the holiday stress... either because of school stuff, or travelling, or preparing the house and table or whatever... Children and teens (at least in my country) have nothing to do in the holiday period, it's all about rest(and avoiding studying for tests in January), and they don't even have to help at home as much as the adults. But plenty of a bit older people have loads of duties during holidays, esp. Christmas (shoping, cleaning, cooking, decorating etc.). Also Valentines is an exam period in my country... and if you have your other half then you also need some time for the 2 of you. In Halloween time on the other hand, in my country majority of people 'celebrate' All Saints Day and visit graves of their relatives across the country and clean, decorate and also pray if they are religious(and majority is religious enough for that), and around this there are classes (so in one part of the event you have classes/work and on 1 day you have a day for the moaning and grave visiting stuff, and there is halloween which is not celebrated here, even though children and selling companies try to bring halloween here so it's kind of here anyway, next to this moaning day, all things at once and only 1 day to hunt CBs btw). Also with holidays breeding true once a year, people are not willing to breed holidayAxHolidayA... because it's a waste of cooldown of 2 holiday dragons.. I bet the all year round breeding true would encourage much more palyers to build some HolidayAxHolidayA lineages or to at least agree to breed such for trades. (e.g. now I needed this kind of lineaged holidays I often needed to trade 2 holidays for 1 hoolidayAxHolidayA egg... which means this once-a-year breeding true causes more greedyness instead of sharing spirit, especially combined with the 2CBs limit) For me, both for personal and non-personal reasons, introducing holidays breeding true all year round is a thing to implement asap. Edited February 25, 2016 by VixenDra Share this post Link to post
Posted February 25, 2016 I would like this, yes. I find holiday breeding seasons rather stressful, too, with fulltime job and partner and such ... On the other hand, I do like the overwhelming amount of pretties of a handful of breeds on the AP. So I'd like the version where the holiday breeding week stays exactly as it is right now (multi-clutch, no refusals, guaranteed holiday-ness of eggs), with all-year-round breeding having a tiny chance (maybe metal rarity?) of yielding an holiday egg - like an unexpected out-of-season gift! Who says gifts need to be reserved to only 3 days a year? Share this post Link to post
Posted February 25, 2016 IF this were to happen - and I'm not keen - would the "no holiday refusals in season" hold up ? If not - I am 1000% against, as that is SO useful. Totally agree. Also the multiclutching as it's one of the few times I feel like I have any real chance at finding neat 2gs from spriter alts, thuweds (?) and that kind of thing, which for me definitely adds to the excitement of the holidays. Share this post Link to post
Posted February 25, 2016 How would this work with Holiday x Holiday? Someone mentioned have them work like Prize x Prize, in which case I DO NOT want. Prize x Prize only ever produces one color or the other if the same type. And I hate that. Otherwise, I'm neither for or against. I make time during the holidays for the cave, but I wouldn't mind breeding them the rest of the year either. Share this post Link to post
Posted February 25, 2016 NO Support. I love the holidays, it's the best tims of the year, I love the walls and I love hunting pretty lineages. I don't want that any of this change. Share this post Link to post
Posted February 25, 2016 I'm more or less in support, with a few notes.... Right now, breeding blocker x blocker, or blocker x common, is *badly* broken. Pretty much the only time I can use blockers and most commons in lineages and NOT get badly frustrated is when they are x Holiday... but building Holiday lineages is itself a huge frustration. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ So my first note is: IF breeding is FIXED, then I support. So if breeding blocker x blocker no longer results in 50+ of breed A and 0 of breed B with an egg every single week, then I'd support this, with a few notes: - I'd have it be uncommon chance of a Holiday for 11 months of the year - During the Holiday month / week, they are guaranteed to produce the Holiday, so they still have a season. - During their Season, they still produce multi-clutches, 1 or 2 eggs say, instead of up to 4. So the joy still spreads - Refusals are either off during the Season, or a refusal reverse BSA is added. One or the other would do. - Maybe old Holidays could be released in the Cave in addition to the bred ones, or perhaps in their own seasonal biome. - This would greatly reduce the stress / difficulty of working with Holiday lines, its *hard* to get all you want if you are doing a lot of lineage work ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Second note is: If breeding is NOT fixed, then: NO Leave it as it is. Holiday x blocker lines, as slow as they are, are STILL far easier to produce than blocker x anything lines... and often times, are *faster*. You can add a generation a year, with them. But with any sort of blocker x common / uncommon / rare? You are lucky to get ONE generation in 2 years..... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ So, that's basically it. If breeding is left as it currently is, then no, please no, because it would just be pure frustration. But if breeding is fixed, I think there are many ways this can be worked out so it would be a huge benefit. Cheers! C4. Share this post Link to post
Posted February 25, 2016 (edited) I really like the holidays as they are now. But I could support this IF: - Getting a holiday egg off-season is as rare as metallic breeding - Multiclutches are still a thing in season - Refusals are still turned off during the season - All eggs produced during the season are holiday eggs I am reaching a point now where it is very hard for me to continue all the holiday lines I would like to because of the scroll limits and the short length of the breeding season, so it would be nice to be able to work on them at other times. On the other hand I sort of like the challenge of building lineages with those limitations. I really want to see multiclutches preserved as they are now. It gives those of us without great trading power at least a small chance of finding those special eggs like 2nd gen Hollies and offspring of spriters alts. I do wonder, though, if the less special eggs would still be picked up as eagerly as they are now if there were a chance of getting them some other time. Just some random thoughts . . . sorry for rambling. Edit to fix typo that I didn't see until Fuzz quoted me. Edited February 25, 2016 by purplehaze Share this post Link to post
Posted February 25, 2016 I really like the holidays as they are now. But I could support this IF: - Getting a holiday egg off-season is as rare as metallic breeding - Multiclutches are still a thing in season - Refusals are still turned of during the season - All eggs produced during the season are holiday eggs I am reaching a point now where it is very hard for me to continue all the holiday lines I would like to because of the scroll limits and the short length of the breeding season, so it would be nice to be able to work on them at other times. On the other hand I sort of like the challenge of building lineages with those limitations. I really want to see multiclutches preserved as they are now. It gives those of us without great trading power at least a small chance of finding those special eggs like 2nd gen Hollies and offspring of spriters alts. I do wonder, though, if the less special eggs would still be picked up as eagerly as they are now if there were a chance of getting them some other time. Just some random thoughts . . . sorry for rambling. Yes - all this. I don't actually support the suggestion (much as I love Sock ) but IF it were to happen, all these conditions are VITAL. Share this post Link to post
Posted February 25, 2016 I support this for the most part, but my choices for how it would work are a little different. 1. Keep the 'breeding season' mechanic in place - one week only 2. Keep the 'no refusals in season' mechanic in place 3. Keep the 'Holiday egg is guaranteed during season' mechanic in place 4. Keep the 'breeder can only keep one egg' mechanic in place 4a. Remove the multi-clutch option (I'm sick of the Holiday walls in the AP) 5. Add at least one row of non-holiday eggs to the AP during breeding season 1. Add 'off season' breeding 2. Chance of a off season egg is the same as getting a metal egg 3. No multi-clutches out of season 4. Holiday x Holiday out of season has a 50/50 chace of which holiday is produced, but the rare as a metal egg still applies 5. Off season Refusals only happen when trying a NEW pairing Additional perks I'd like to see related to Holidays 1. Increase the breed limit to 4 cbs 2. Drop old Holiday cbs for 24hrs, preferably on the Holiday itself, breed limit still applies Share this post Link to post
Posted February 25, 2016 4a. Remove the multi-clutch option (I'm sick of the Holiday walls in the AP) NO. The holiday wall it's important for all players who don't use the forum and/or don't make trades. It's the only mechanism that allows a little fairness in a game that highly favors those who have high end computers and fast connections. Without the holiday wall the holiday dragon will behave exactly like the other dragons and I can foresee people asking for CB golds and xenos for a simple holiday egg. I am strongly against this idea, I'm sick of the trading market. I can't have CB golds because my computer is old, my connection is bad and I don't have anything in my scroll with this value. But I can have 2g holidays because it only depends of myself hunting in the wall. I want more equality in this game, no less. People have the whole year to hunt commons in the AP. The holiday wall must be preserved. Share this post Link to post
Posted February 25, 2016 What about one month of holiday breedibg instead of one week? Multiclutch limite could be fixed at minimum 2 eggs and max 3 every time you breed a couple of dragons. You could breed them 4 times in a month, allowing more chances to trade your best eggs and still having the right to keep it. Share this post Link to post
Posted February 25, 2016 (edited) The holiday wall must be preserved. This. ETA but not to a month'; breeding - that would give us three months of holiday walls. That's NOT OK A week is enough, IMNVHO. Edited February 25, 2016 by fuzzbucket Share this post Link to post
Posted February 25, 2016 I agree that the Holiday wall should be preserved, but I also think the addition of a single line of non-Holidays would help a lot, too. Hence why I suggested a suggestion I'd never use myself Cheers! C4. Share this post Link to post
Posted February 25, 2016 (edited) Well, 1 month of breeding season for each holiday type would be fine for me IF there is no limit of the given dragon to breed just once (which is the case now:( and newly grown ups can't breed either until next year:/) AND if the new breed can breed at least twice(while I need 4:() in the same year it was released. Or again, waste of 2gens and (Halloween)CBs, sry. I'm more for all year around with holidays having a chance of being bred similar to Coppers or Prizes (definitely not of Golds and Silvers:/ they're a terrible pain to get even if you breed PB!) while off season. for me a 'just right' compromise sollution would be ofc to keep how holidays behave IN season + able to breed true 1 month before and 1 month+ after the new breed's release(so th enew breed han breed at least 4 times in the same year it was released) with 'able to breed true 1month+ after new breed's release' being a must for me to be satisfied. Edited February 25, 2016 by VixenDra Share this post Link to post
Posted February 25, 2016 So you are OK with month-long holiday walls ? Because that IS what would happen, unless we lost the multiclutch and the no refusal/guaranteed holiday offspring. I'm NOT. I am fine with the fact that you can only breed them once in season, and I think that needs to stay. Share this post Link to post
Posted February 25, 2016 I'm NOT. I am fine with the fact that you can only breed them once in season, and I think that needs to stay. I agreed. I doesn't bother me that I can only breed them once a year. But it would bother me greatly to lose the holiday wall, it's what makes the holiday season so special. Share this post Link to post
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