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> Improving the Vines, Tell me about yours!
 
How would you feel about a vine update?
YES! (/)*o*)/` <3 [ 801 ]  [84.32%]
NU! (╯□)╯︵ ┻━┻ [ 118 ]  [12.42%]
I support only part of this plan. (please post?) [ 31 ]  [3.26%]
Total Votes: 950
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Lythiaren
Posted on Jan 3 2012, 02:46 AM
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There is no neutral option because if you're neutral, you can null.

Currently needed: What would you like to see in hatchlings? The ones I have right now are just kind of glaring at the viewer. As noted below, the hatchlings are completely new sprites. I'll say up front that I don't feel the Silvanon base pose fits as well as it could; it seems a little too perky. Yes, baby vines are curious little things, and yes they'll perk right up when you offer them a nice slab of meat. But otherwise... well, they like to dig holes and pick fights, sometimes using their vines to poke around at other plants and look for nuts and things. That's really about it. How would you like the hatchlings to be? The ones I have are meant more to show the innate mean streak, but if all the images are mean I'm not sure if that's just too much sameness or not.

Also: I would like to encourage discussion on a female sprite. Which would you prefer to see in Lady Vine? Would you rather she hid and plotted under her leaves like a murderess, or would you rather she emerge snarling from her hole like her male counterpart?

UPDATE: I counted votes on sneaky vs. snarly female. It was too close to determine a decisive winner; snarly wins by a single vote that was kind of ambiguous. Feel free to continue this discussion, but I will be attempting to merge the two if I can. If I can't, I will do one of each and put those up for a vote, as people have expressed a desire to see what they're actually voting on before making a decision. I can't guarantee that I will recount for further votes after this post.


In the wake of the gold update, I've decided to ask Ye People what you think of my very own prefog dragon. Remember! These are my creations but you bring them to life. Tell me what you want for your dragons. Your dragons that exist! I control only what they look like and how the breed works in general. Tell me what your vines are like!

There are a few things that are wrong with the current set, and I'm aware. I may not be aware of all of the problems, but that's one reason I'm opening this thread. First, though, so people don't have to go looking for them:

user posted image -> user posted image -> user posted image -> user posted image

1: Egg does not match the description. This sprite, I do not intend to change. The site description states clearly that this breed possesses no magic to speak of, so there is no reason for the dragonet to mysteriously force-grow vegetation around it. As far as I could tell, the description is only the way it is to build an association with plants. I suggest, then, a change to the description.

"This egg is sitting in a patch of grass and small flowers even though there's no sun in the cave." -> "This egg was found in a patch of grass and small flowers."

Pros: This is the simplest solution to the egg problem, and it lines up the egg with the rest of the breed for minimal work. Change one string and done.

Cons: People will have to relearn the description. Initially this will lead to people clicking them in a knee-jerk "THIS IS UNFAMILIAR IT MUST BE NEW" reaction. It may lead to increased vines in the AP during this learning process, as people who don't like them as much may simply reflex-click them more often because they're thrown off by the new description.

Another solution is to change the egg sprite, and there are at least two such edits already done... somewhere out here. The problem I have with this, however, has to do with the vine's abilities and the effects plants have on the dragon. Direct contact with living plants (with the sole exception of the vines growing out of its back) causes this dragon stress. This is because they possess a weak form of telekinesis, specialized to living plant matter. Use of this on a plant that is not directly wired to its own nerves is very stressful, to the point where a young vine will shy away from plants until it learns to control (or at least "turn off") the ability. So if it hatches in a flower patch... to put it bluntly, it would be traumatic. The instinctively panicked dragonet could easily injure or kill itself, especially with vine plants such as morning glory.

2: Hatchlings. If I update the vines, the Silvanon hatchling will have to go. If you look closely, the current hatchling has vines growing from the ground around it, with nothing attached to the body. Furthermore, the head structure differs significantly from that of the adult. It also lacks the signature flytrap tail. The fourth reason, however, has less to do with the hatchling's deviation from the adult design and everything to do with the similarity to the alt. If you only have one vine hatchling, it can be difficult for people to tell if their dragon is an alt or not before S2. This image shows more or less what I'm talking about, comparing S1 to the adult:

user posted image

Purple: The hatchling has two horns, which are different colour. The adult has a 5-point crown on the back of the skull. Also, the hatchling has a very short, rounded snout while the adult's is long and beaked. I will say nothing of the serrated eye ridges, which are very difficult to make out on the adult; it's included in the comparison simply because I know it's there. Most people don't, and that's fine. THE MORE YOU KNOW! /rainbow
Orange: Tails. Hatchling has no flytrap.
Blue: Source of plant. Hatchling has it growing from the ground whereas the actual adult has it growing from the body.
Not pictured: S2 standard vine has three flowers, whereas the adult clearly has only two blooms. It should be noted that the currently-hidden adult female has three blossoms, however.

Yes, I know the adult scribbled on comparison image is scrawny for some reason and not proportional to the plant. I drew it funny. Feel free to make fun of me. :V

A complete redesign of the hatchlings, something I've already completed, would solve all of these problems in a single swoop. Not only do they match the adults better structurally, but they also carry the same "meanness" of the standard adult. I'd be happy to post them for all to see, if TJ gives me permission to do so.

Pros: The hatchlings will actually match. That's... about it, really. The Silvanon hatchling was designed to match the Silvanon vine, which is the alt. The hatchling currently in use is merely a recolour that was done at crunch time, as I hadn't made a matching hatchling set for mine.

Cons: Some people love the current hatchling. Evidence of this was shown pretty clearly when someone fought my replacement hatchlings with a modified Silvanon hatchling. That person, however, refused to modify the hatchling to fit the real adult, and instead insisted that their interpretation was more true to my creation than my own design. The image they made was lost to a forum purge, I believe, so sadly I cannot recover it for a comparison.

There isn't much in terms of other solutions for this inconsistency. I do believe that moving away from the Silvanon hatchling would be best. It was designed to match the alt. I believe it should stay with the alt in its original form. Yes, it will be harder to get them. I know this, and I am sorry. But they will still be available and obtainable this way. If you would like to object, please do.

3: The current sprite, and what's wrong with it. Currently, as many people can plainly see, it's hard to distinguish the dragon from the plant. This is something I was aware of in production; on TJ's own suggestion, we merged the palettes from the plant and dragon in order to cut colours. The darkest shadows on the plant are the same colour as the dragon's lightest highlights. Because the colour limit has been lifted, I wish to increase the contrast to make it easier to find the dragon without causing eye strain. While I'm at it, I will most likely modify the crown so that it fits the design as I had envisioned it originally; I'm not entirely sure how it turned out the way it has, but the spikes are quite irregular and I'd like to fix it. This is probably the only lineart change that will happen on this sprite. It's probably less than 20 pixels.

Also, I am considering the removal of some (or maybe all) of the dirt on his back; there is simply no way for the dragon to bury himself completely in soil without damaging his plant, therefore I see them curling up in dug-out pits in the dirt instead of being truly underground. I can only see one way to get that much dirt on his neck; they will dig out little tunnels on the side to stick their heads into while they wait for prey. This is because the crown is not decorative. The dragon will press his head against the ceiling of such a tunnel to feel the vibrations made by wildlife walking about the area. If he was to burst out of such a head-tunnel, he would get dirt all over his back as in the sprite. To be clear, the dirt in question would be the stuff between the head and the plant. All the other dirt isn't likely to need touching, except maybe to make it more dirtlike.

Pros: Minimal change to the sprite itself; there will be updated shading, but for the most part I don't intend to change the palette significantly, except to make the plant more green and less minty. Effects on lineages (hopefully) minimized.

Cons: Nitpickers. :C

4: Dimorphism. Yes, I know some people hate dimorphism with a fiery passion, but some people really love it.

I do have a female sprite done. I may reposition her vines a little so it's a little more tangled, but aside from that, she's pretty much done except some colour tweaks. Their attitude is very similar, in that "I'm going to KILL YOU." way that is their signature. The difference is that the male is saying that to your face, whereas the female has a more subtle viciousness. Like she's thinking it in her head, plotting a way to kill you and destroy the evidence.

Pros: Dimorphism! Variety! Woo!

Cons: Some people hate dimorphism.

There isn't really an alternative solution. Either dimorphism is done or it isn't. If it isn't, people who wanted it will be disappointed. If it is, people who don't want it will flip some tables. (╯□)╯︵ ┻━┻

Am I missing anything? Also, how do I made poll? :c

This post has been edited by Lythiaren on Jan 17 2012, 01:52 PM
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blackchimera
Posted on Jan 3 2012, 02:55 AM
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I think you've laid out your update plan pretty well. At least, I don't see anything you might have missed. I'm definitely interested in seeing your new sprites for this dragon smile.gif
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katsrevenge
Posted on Jan 3 2012, 03:02 AM
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I'd like to see it.
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Shiny Hazard Sign
Posted on Jan 3 2012, 03:03 AM
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-squeeeeeee-

This is making me excited! I really do like updates on sprites c: Your laid-out plan is wonderful, and I really like that you are strong on the point that these dragons are MEAN. I hope that prevents some people from flailing around that their dragons are nice little cuddle buddies and should look like that. x3

The current adult doesn't look all that vicious to me, more like he's popping his head outta the dirt to say hello. Unfortunately, I don't have any suggestions for that, but I'm quite confident you know what you're doing and I'll leave it at that. x)

Can't waaaaaiittt~
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Plaguefly
Posted on Jan 3 2012, 03:04 AM
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YES.
Do want.

The way I see it, it's your dragon, so you ought to be allowed to do what YOU feel is best for it, and people should respect that.
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Daciana_Adena
Posted on Jan 3 2012, 03:04 AM
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I don't normally post in Suggestions/Requests, but I just wanted to come in and throw in my support for this.

So, I'm all for seeing more of what you have planned; and at least to me at the moment, it seems you've outlined your intentions rather well. ^^
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Mysfytt
Posted on Jan 3 2012, 03:04 AM
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Personally I don't like the vines and only collected them for the needed cb mates to my tinsels.
Why, they were too messy and hard to see where the dragon was, the hatchie was just a red repeat - boring. Chance of getting an alt - nil to Buckley's.

THIS will make all the difference.

I would love to see your reproductions of your vines, and to have them in their true glory would certainly make them more popular (which may be a bad thing since they seem to be uber-rare at the mo - but meh!) Also a female version - whoot, all for the dimorphism.

You have my vote.




*click new poll button bottom right of post.*
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Lythiaren
Posted on Jan 3 2012, 03:07 AM
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QUOTE (Mysfytt @ Jan 3 2012, 12:04 AM)
*click new poll button bottom right of post.*

Wouldn't that make a new thread? D:

If so, F.

EDIT: OWAIT I SEE IT 8D

This post has been edited by Lythiaren on Jan 3 2012, 03:07 AM
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BirdSpirit
Posted on Jan 3 2012, 03:09 AM
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Interesting new info on the Vines. I'm up for a change.

Mind showing us the female you mentioned? biggrin.gif


Edit: And no, polls don't make a new thread.

This post has been edited by BirdSpirit on Jan 3 2012, 03:10 AM
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Verridith
Posted on Jan 3 2012, 03:10 AM
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I am all for it, baby <33
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SockPuppet Strangler
Posted on Jan 3 2012, 03:19 AM
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Haven't voted yet, because I can't really decide without seeing a sprite, but I will say this:

I am definitely for unique hatchlings. I would love this. <3

Sprite updates certainly couldn't hurt and the vine has some unique attributes, so I doubt any sprite fix up, even if a complete overhaul or re-do, would make them unrecognizable. =p
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arenee1999
Posted on Jan 3 2012, 03:23 AM
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I have a soft spot for the Vines because one of my first dragons was a Vine. smile.gif I'd definitely like more of a contrast between the plant and the dragon. Although, before giving my opinion on the other changes and dimorphism I'd like to see the sprites.
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Lythiaren
Posted on Jan 3 2012, 03:26 AM
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I don't think I'm allowed to post them without TJ's consent, sadly.

Sock, I could've sworn you've seen them. owo;;
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Pa Tone
Posted on Jan 3 2012, 03:28 AM
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I'd really like to see the new hatchlings myself. If update anything, do that.
I'm rather indifferent on the egg. Changing the sprite, description, or leaving it as is all works for me.
As for the adult, I really like the way it is right now. Perhaps updated shading or whatever, but nothing too funky. Like the horses. wink.gif
Oh, and <3 le femme.

This post has been edited by Pa Tone on Jan 3 2012, 03:29 AM
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Reidragon
Posted on Jan 3 2012, 03:28 AM
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Support all the way!

That is all :3
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Shinobimasterz
Posted on Jan 3 2012, 03:30 AM
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Hmm, would it be just a reshade or a totally new sprite?

If a new sprite, i could help out smile.gif
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Byoestu
Posted on Jan 3 2012, 03:34 AM
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I know the quality of your work and your quest to improve your design speaks of your dedication to the breed and to your art. Completely support what you want.
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Lythiaren
Posted on Jan 3 2012, 03:36 AM
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The sprites are more or less complete already, Shinobi. Changes to the male are mostly just shading and making the plant a little less minty and more green. Lady Vine is a new sprite altogether, as are the little ones. I'm just gauging the general sentiment before I go bother TJ for anything else that needs doing. I can still change things if needed.

This post has been edited by Lythiaren on Jan 3 2012, 03:39 AM
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elynne
Posted on Jan 3 2012, 03:39 AM
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-ahem- YES YES YES PLEASE YES DO WANT YES biggrin.gif
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SockPuppet Strangler
Posted on Jan 3 2012, 03:39 AM
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QUOTE (Lythiaren @ Jan 3 2012, 01:26 AM)
Sock, I could've sworn you've seen them. owo;;

I probably have. It's been so long I don't remember them. D|

My post talked myself into voting yes, though. =p
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