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> Gender and Gender Identity, Trans, Cis, Androgynous, Genderqueer
Wookieinmashoo
Posted: Apr 30 2012, 08:11 PM
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I guess I never thought about the wind or moving around in them...go figure. I guess that would be a hassle. Since I'm going to another convention I think skirts will be my choice of questioning. Last time I just asked what art program people used for their art. I think I'll ask both and see what kind of responses I get. Might be interesting since some of the males might have experiences wearing skits or dresses.
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Icepelt
Posted: May 29 2012, 10:14 AM
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Going to share this here. Everyone I know save for two people are cis-gendered. The other two I know are genderqueer and FTM Trans*. They're not who I'm focusing on, though. As some may know, a lot of people refer to their friends as "dude" or "Bro", both masculine words. Now, I have a friend who is a cis-gendered female. I remember calling her dude once and she got really angry at me, saying that she was a girl. I don't really know why, though. I wasn't aiming to misgender her, as I now how much that can hurt someone's feelings, but she just got really upset. Is this something to worry about, or what? I just think it's rather silly considering how dude isn't used a a male-only noun.

This post has been edited by Icepelt on May 29 2012, 10:14 AM
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Wookieinmashoo
Posted: May 29 2012, 11:15 AM
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QUOTE (Icepelt @ May 29 2012, 10:14 AM)
Going to share this here. Everyone I know save for two people are cis-gendered. The other two I know are genderqueer and FTM Trans*. They're not who I'm focusing on, though. As some may know, a lot of people refer to their friends as "dude" or "Bro", both masculine words. Now, I have a friend who is a cis-gendered female. I remember calling her dude once and she got really angry at me, saying that she was a girl. I don't really know why, though. I wasn't aiming to misgender her, as I now how much that can hurt someone's feelings, but she just got really upset. Is this something to worry about, or what? I just think it's rather silly considering how dude isn't used a a male-only noun.

Maybe she was once mistaken as a male before and that offended her...so the "dude" comment just reminded her. Maybe she doesn't like the word itself, maybe it's just annoying to her. I also have a female friend who calls everyone "dude". Some words bother people for various reasons, so it's probably best just to refrain from calling her that, even though it may be a habit. Just let her know you didn't mean anything by it.
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soullesshuman
Posted: May 29 2012, 05:23 PM
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So, apparently, my statements about my own gender issues seem to cause in other people the thought that I'm just doing it for attention.

How can one approach the subject about themselves without seeming as such?
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angelicdragonpuppy
Posted: May 29 2012, 06:15 PM
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I really do not understand 'gender identity.' A lot of the people who support it are those who are the firmest set that men are women are completely undistinguishable from one another. If men and women are identical, then why the heck would anyone need to pretend they were of the other gender to be happy?

While I believe there are some minor and unimportant differences between males and females, I do not think there are anywhere near enough to warrant someone trying to pretend they are something else, especially if you live in a good country where you won't get many stares for doing something 'uncharacteristic' of your gender. Guys can watch MLP and girls can play with trucks. Men can be very loving parents and women can be soldiers. There is so little that being of one gender prevents you from being/doing that I see no reason anyone should have to try to identify with a gender other than their own.

Be proud of what you are, or at least don't really care about it. So you have a certain pair of parts between your legs. So people refer to you as a he or a she depending on your gender. Um... so? How's that stopping you? Just because you're a guy or a gal doesn't mean you have to put on a facade to get what you want. Just be yourself! You can do what you want without needing to make other people call you something other than your real he or she!

Of course this applies only to people who don't have genetic things going on that would put them in an odd spot. But even with those people--men and women can do whatever they want, more or less. So if you're naturally kind of on the fence, then you have even less of those minor restrictions. No need to try to force yourself to identify with one gender or the other, just do whatever the heck you want, yo.

This post has been edited by angelicdragonpuppy on May 29 2012, 06:18 PM
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soullesshuman
Posted: May 29 2012, 06:38 PM
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QUOTE (angelicdragonpuppy @ May 29 2012, 06:15 PM)

While I believe there are some minor and unimportant differences between males and females, I do not think there are anywhere near enough to warrant someone trying to pretend they are something else, especially if you live in a good country where you won't get many stares for doing something 'uncharacteristic' of your gender. Guys can watch MLP and girls can play with trucks. Men can be very loving parents and women can be soldiers. There is so little that being of one gender prevents you from being/doing that I see no reason anyone should have to try to identify with a gender other than their own.

I don't think you've ever heard of that men and women are in fact treated differently even in 'good' countries. It's not small or 'unimportant' details. It's when you look down and realize that you don't even recognize your own body as yours.
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7Deadly$ins
Posted: May 29 2012, 08:14 PM
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It's not about what you can do or gender norms. It's about feeling and thinking that you are one gender, but NOT being that way. Would you feel the slightest bit uncomfortable if you woke up one day in the other sex's body?
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St. Jimmy
Posted: May 29 2012, 09:14 PM
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And where does that leave people who identify as non-binary?
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Moeru
Posted: May 29 2012, 10:06 PM
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QUOTE (St. Jimmy @ May 30 2012, 10:14 AM)
And where does that leave people who identify as non-binary?

Right in the spectrum, in the genderqueer area. FIVE of my best friends identify as genderqueer (for the record, they are 23, 26, 28, 30 and 31 years old, so we aren't talking about high-school confusion here) or gender-mixed or gender-neutral. Two of them were assigned female at birth, two of them were assigned male at birth. All of them live mostly as their assigned gender but behave and dress in a "mixed" way. They do whatever makes them comfortable. Four of them are pansexual, one is only attracted to females.

My girlfriend is trans* MTF but cannot transition due to social obligations (she is 29). My roommate is trans* MTF and IS transitioning, at last, now that she's 35. They are both just as much girls to me as any of my cis female friends.

Non-binary is just the tip of the iceberg, guys. Once you open your mind to the idea that gender isn't a line with two points (M or F) and it might be a whole 3-Dimensional space with room for things that are between, outside or wholly different from M and F, breaking away from that constraint is one of the most liberating things you can do, both for yourself and for people around you who might feel trapped in a gender role that makes them feel sick.
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TikindiDragon
Posted: May 29 2012, 11:30 PM
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QUOTE (angelicdragonpuppy @ May 30 2012, 12:15 AM)
Be proud of what you are, or at least don't really care about it. So you have a certain pair of parts between your legs. So people refer to you as a he or a she depending on your gender. Um... so? How's that stopping you? Just because you're a guy or a gal doesn't mean you have to put on a facade to get what you want. Just be yourself! You can do what you want without needing to make other people call you something other than your real he or she!

That's just it, though - it *is* about being yourself. For me being a girl *is* putting on a facade. It would be every bit like being male was for you.

Imagine looking into the mirror and loathing what you see. Imagine being traumatised by puberty because the wrong things were happening to you body. Imagine being the 4 year old that had to have it expained that the boy parts weren't going to grow in, no matter how long you waited for them.

My being trans has nothing whatsoever to do with society, and everything to do with being myself. I *know* I'm male, in just the same way as you know you are female.

Incidently, for the record, male and female brains *are* different. The structure is different. A lot of the processing is different. Now don't get me wrong, there is a sliding scale (which, incidently, seems to be linked to sexuality), but the differences are more than 'minor' or 'unimportant'.
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SockPuppet Strangler
Posted: May 30 2012, 12:13 AM
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QUOTE (Icepelt @ May 29 2012, 09:14 AM)
Going to share this here. Everyone I know save for two people are cis-gendered. The other two I know are genderqueer and FTM Trans*. They're not who I'm focusing on, though. As some may know, a lot of people refer to their friends as "dude" or "Bro", both masculine words. Now, I have a friend who is a cis-gendered female. I remember calling her dude once and she got really angry at me, saying that she was a girl. I don't really know why, though. I wasn't aiming to misgender her, as I now how much that can hurt someone's feelings, but she just got really upset. Is this something to worry about, or what? I just think it's rather silly considering how dude isn't used a a male-only noun.

In addition to what Wookie said, different words mean different things to different people. Dude may be non-gender-specific for you, but perhaps they've only heard it used in a gender-specific way. Or perhaps people have used that to demean her gender before and it was therefore a trigger for her.

I often use 'guys' to describe a group of people. Once, our group dwindled down and 'guys' came out before I could stop myself. I was able to stop myself enough so that it wasn't plural, so I ended up calling my girl friend a 'guy'. I just meant it as a way to address her and I as a group or something, but it did upset her. For her, it was a male-specific address, even though I meant it as something else and non-gender-specific.

I'm sure there's something that you don't like to be called that someone else may use for others.

I think the question you have to ask is whether it is worth it for you to get upset because she was offended or whether it's just worth it to file that away to avoid it in the future and respect her request. :3

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Be proud of what you are, or at least don't really care about it. So you have a certain pair of parts between your legs. So people refer to you as a he or a she depending on your gender. Um... so? How's that stopping you? Just because you're a guy or a gal doesn't mean you have to put on a facade to get what you want. Just be yourself! You can do what you want without needing to make other people call you something other than your real he or she!


I know this is really hard to understand for us cis-folk, but we wake up comfortable in our bodies every day. It does matter to people when they wake up feeling like their body is wrong, like they don't belong in it, like it doesn't fit. As you said - what's wrong with being yourself? Nothing. So let trans- and other non-gender-binary people be themselves, too. :3
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Moeru
Posted: May 30 2012, 09:42 AM
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QUOTE (TikindiDragon @ May 30 2012, 12:30 PM)
That's just it, though - it *is* about being yourself. For me being a girl *is* putting on a facade. It would be every bit like being male was for you.

Imagine looking into the mirror and loathing what you see. Imagine being traumatised by puberty because the wrong things were happening to you body. Imagine being the 4 year old that had to have it expained that the boy parts weren't going to grow in, no matter how long you waited for them.

My being trans has nothing whatsoever to do with society, and everything to do with being myself. I *know* I'm male, in just the same way as you know you are female.

Incidently, for the record, male and female brains *are* different. The structure is different. A lot of the processing is different. Now don't get me wrong, there is a sliding scale (which, incidently, seems to be linked to sexuality), but the differences are more than 'minor' or 'unimportant'.

Just quoting this because it needs to be read over and over by everyone.
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Wookieinmashoo
Posted: May 31 2012, 10:11 AM
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QUOTE (angelicdragonpuppy @ May 29 2012, 06:15 PM)
I really do not understand 'gender identity.' A lot of the people who support it are those who are the firmest set that men are women are completely undistinguishable from one another. If men and women are identical, then why the heck would anyone need to pretend they were of the other gender to be happy?

While I believe there are some minor and unimportant differences between males and females, I do not think there are anywhere near enough to warrant someone trying to pretend they are something else, especially if you live in a good country where you won't get many stares for doing something 'uncharacteristic' of your gender. Guys can watch MLP and girls can play with trucks. Men can be very loving parents and women can be soldiers. There is so little that being of one gender prevents you from being/doing that I see no reason anyone should have to try to identify with a gender other than their own.

Be proud of what you are, or at least don't really care about it. So you have a certain pair of parts between your legs. So people refer to you as a he or a she depending on your gender. Um... so? How's that stopping you? Just because you're a guy or a gal doesn't mean you have to put on a facade to get what you want. Just be yourself! You can do what you want without needing to make other people call you something other than your real he or she!

Of course this applies only to people who don't have genetic things going on that would put them in an odd spot. But even with those people--men and women can do whatever they want, more or less. So if you're naturally kind of on the fence, then you have even less of those minor restrictions. No need to try to force yourself to identify with one gender or the other, just do whatever the heck you want, yo.

It's not about being manly or girly, it's not about fitting a "role", and it's definitely not about "pretending". As far as I know these things are the last thing on my mind when I think of gender identity. Yes, there's nothing in most societies that prevents one from being or doing anything, but I think that's the main issue people tend to not see. We are so hellbent on telling people just do what you want, be who you want, and don't care if people don't treat you normally. It seems being transgendered is being who you are. It has nothing to do at all with societal implications. So people see someone who is transgendered as a plea to be accepted because to most people that's what we want to be; we just want to be accepted. But for someone to feel that way they need to be comfortable with themselves, which starts with letting someone be who they are. Being uncomfortable with your own body for any reason for whatever reason can be upsetting. I have only been slightly unconformable and that in itself irritated me too.

I'm just rambling now but it's more about the person themselves, not how they think society views them. It's a personal thing and, I don't speak on everyone's behalf, society or roles have no implication on it.

Keep in mind I'm speaking from my point of view and not anyone else's. can't get into the minds of others, so this is just how I feel on the subject.

This post has been edited by Wookieinmashoo on May 31 2012, 10:14 AM
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Saloiq
Posted: Jun 12 2012, 03:18 PM
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Are there any reasons to change gender besides wanting a different body or wanting people to treat you as if you're whatever gender you're becoming?

And would a guy who looks like a guy and acts just like a girl but doesn't consider himself a girl be labeled transgender?

Bleh. I feel like all the it's okay to act like a 'girl'/'boy' ideas have messed up my ability to understand gender. x_x
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7Deadly$ins
Posted: Jun 12 2012, 03:38 PM
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It's about making your outward body the same as your inward perception.

A guy who thinks he is a guy is a guy. He is not transgender.
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SockPuppet Strangler
Posted: Jun 12 2012, 08:03 PM
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QUOTE
And would a guy who looks like a guy and acts just like a girl but doesn't consider himself a girl be labeled transgender?


Who is labeling them transgender? The person themself is the one best able to say that. :3
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TikindiDragon
Posted: Jun 12 2012, 11:58 PM
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QUOTE (Saloiq @ Jun 12 2012, 09:18 PM)
Bleh. I feel like all the it's okay to act like a 'girl'/'boy' ideas have messed up my ability to understand gender. x_x

that'll be because societal conditioning =/= gender. To be honest it's not exactly an easy concept for a lot of people that are cis- to grasp. When you feel like you belong in your body it's quite easy to think gender it all about what society expects of people.
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Lagie
Posted: Jun 17 2012, 08:34 PM
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CPA mom. Have a brownie.
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This was found recently on a shelf in a shop here in Nassau: http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-...131444278_n.jpg
It's meant to be transmission fluid but they've named it oddly!
(For some reason we get all the South American imports when we're actually closer to the U.S. Than to South America. And we don't even speak Spanish.)
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Jangles
Posted: Aug 21 2012, 07:04 PM
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Did'nt see any trans posts, so i thought i would post one.

I have a few transgendered friends who have been harassed before in the past and are more often then not looked down upon, including by members of the lgbtq community. I am aware that this has been a very serious issue, along with many other issues in the trans community such as drug abuse, homeless youth, abuse, suicide and murders etc. Witch has escalated throughout the years.

My questions are:

Does it make you uncomfortable for someone you know to be trans? if so why?

Would you respect the requests of someone being called by a specific gender? if not why?

What could we do to improve the view of the trans community?

Would you even want to improve the community?

How do we help with the very large issue of trans youth turning to drugs?

edit: sorry if im not clear on the drug thing! it may just be a west-coast problem, but there is a MASSIVE problem in the community of people using drugs, especially youth. it may just be here, but if i had a dollar for all the trans drug dealers ive ever been acquainted with, i would be a rich man indeed.. sadly

This post has been edited by Jangles on Aug 21 2012, 08:16 PM
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Leidarendi
Posted: Aug 21 2012, 07:22 PM
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All people are wonderful and should be treated equally. I am against any form of discrimination. Live and let live.
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