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Accessibility Option for Eggs

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I like Olympe's idea. But if having more click space is a concern, then why not just keep the click space the egg only, and have the text above just like the time below - not a link? If it's done that way, I can't see any unfair advantage in this.

That's what I think. I mean, it's that way in the biomes with the descriptions, so it's not like it's introducing a totally unheard of element to the cave to try and accommodate players with vision issues. Just taking what's already there and then expanding it to the AP, too...

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You all are aware that you can easily increase your click space by simply hitting ctrl and + repeatedly or changing your monitor settings to a lower resolution? blink.gif

Edited by olympe

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As I said, I don't give a flying flip as long as a screen reader can read it, since both the words and acronyms are consistent and distinguishing, which is worlds better than image image image image image image.

 

Either one would serve the purpose of giving the eggs a handle so a colorblind person could recognize them.  The words would be much faster but defeat the purpose of not knowing what an egg breed is called.  Lots of new players start by getting eggs out of the AP--if they are blind or colorblind, they ought to have something to learn to recognize the eggs the way people with full sight do.  Y'know, squinting at the Whites, Fogs, Silvers, Silver Tinsels, then throwing them back if it wasn't what we wanted?  It's all part of learning the game.  Adding an acronym makes that more meaningful to people who have an unduly rough time seeing the patterns on the eggs, and gives blind people the chance to participate in that at last.

I still dislike the idea of being able to use a screen reader to lurk the AP. The same coding format that would allow use of a screen reader would also make it easier to write a script to automatically refresh and click on eggs of specific breeds. Ease of access for some people shouldn't also make it easier for people who know how scripts work to cheat...

Edited by Layn

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I still dislike the idea of being able to use a screen reader to lurk the AP. The same coding format that would allow use of a screen reader would also make it easier to write a script to automatically refresh and click on eggs of specific breeds. Ease of access for some people shouldn't also make it easier for people who know how scripts work to cheat...

You know, people can do that to steal CB Golds from the cave. Why do you dislike the idea of blind people being able to use DC's trash bin when the cheaters can already steal the good stuff from the front of the store?

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I guess if you are looking to a screen reader, the words would be better as many are single syllable = faster.

 

"Dorsal" might be a small problem....

Actually if you just put a "P" or a "R" in front, it should help with that.

 

Like this:

 

RDORSAL

PDORSAL

 

Or:

R DORSAL

P DORSAL

 

Or maybe just a portion of it like

R DOR

P DOR

 

I looked at your links and agree something with either a whole word is much easier to process. Our brains are trained to recognize those at a much faster rate. Initials would mean having to retrain ourselves for those abbreviations, which would actually slow down the very people this is trying to help.

 

Just my 2¢ worth.

 

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You know, people can do that to steal CB Golds from the cave. Why do you dislike the idea of blind people being able to use DC's trash bin when the cheaters can already steal the good stuff from the front of the store?

They can ? HOW ???? ninja.gif

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You know, people can do that to steal CB Golds from the cave. Why do you dislike the idea of blind people being able to use DC's trash bin when the cheaters can already steal the good stuff from the front of the store?

because this just makes it easier to cheat. Right now, the way the AP is coded doesn't allow scripting to grab rares. Enabling screen readers would make it possible to cheat on the AP as well.

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You know, people can do that to steal CB Golds from the cave. Why do you dislike the idea of blind people being able to use DC's trash bin when the cheaters can already steal the good stuff from the front of the store?

:| so because it is possible for some people to cheat, it should be made easier for everyone else to cheat too? What you said makes no sense. Even if it is possible to cheat now, why should we make it easier?

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:| so because it is possible for some people to cheat, it should be made easier for everyone else to cheat too? What you said makes no sense. Even if it is possible to cheat now, why should we make it easier?

What I'm saying is that it doesn't make sense to me to dislike making the game playable for a certain population because some people might take advantage of it...especially when they can do so in far worse ways already.

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Guys... You're failing to realize that it would make it easier for them to get eggs from the AP--but they can already exploit that very weakness you're concerned about to grab CB rares from the biomes.

 

 

What would you rather them cheat to get--a 15th gen, messy, horribly inbred gold, or that shiny CB gold you just spent the last 4 hours stalking the cave for?

 

 

True, not everybody cares about lineages--but the point is, they can already cheat to get what people generally consider more desirable either as trade fodder or as breeding stock for future trade fodder.

 

 

If you really wanna do that, then we should be consistent and make it so that the flavor text under the eggs in the biomes is an image, too instead of making the AP "special" in how it's handled.

Edited by KageSora

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If you really wanna do that, then we should be consistent and make it so that the flavor text under the eggs in the biomes is an image, too instead of making the AP "special" in how it's handled.

Taking a step back in adhering to basic web standards doesn't strike me as a good idea. Anyhow, I really do wish this suggestion would extend to screen readers, but if people really just can't stand the idea of DC adhering to basic web standards and being enjoyable by more people because someone might abuse the alt text, then I am still glad the suggestion would help colorblind players.

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Taking a step back in adhering to basic web standards doesn't strike me as a good idea.  Anyhow, I really do wish this suggestion would extend to screen readers, but if people really just can't stand the idea of DC adhering to basic web standards and being enjoyable by more people because someone might abuse the alt text, then I am still glad the suggestion would help colorblind players.

My idea of basic web standards is that security > all else, and eliminating cheating is a form of security. The fact that the flavor text is there is a loophole that can be used to cheat, and should be removed in the interest of preventing cheating. True, it does prevent people who cannot see from knowing which egg they are going to pick, but security should be the primary concern. You don't leave a gaping security hole in your site just because people find it convenient.

 

If this was, say, Unicreatures, it wouldn't be a problem that the flavor text can be used to write scripts to automatically grab eggs. Because in games like that, no one's competing to grab them. But for DC, the ability to write scripts to automatically grab eggs should be eliminated, because it allows people to cheat.

Edited by Layn

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Just curious - I am all in favour of it being accessible to blind people - so OK to screen readers - BUT - I know I am not very bright here - but OK - partially blind I can see (no pun intended) but how would a BLIND person know where to click after hearing the text read? (I really want to know this...)

 

As to cheating - I imagine TJ can cope. And anyway - everything in life has cheats in it. It is not OK - but whatever happens with the game, someone will find a way to cheat. That, sadly, is life. Decent players will just carry on playing the best they can; sad people who cheat are - well, sad. If that is the only way they can feel satisfied, by stomping on others - I feel sorry for them. I may never get a CB gold if enough people are pulling that one - but my common lineages are lovely, and they aren't likely to spoil those for me.

 

CB golds are not the only thing in the game.

 

ETA (cross posted) Security is about people not hacking into others' scrolls, really. Anything can and will be hacked. Heck - a major site I use was hacked recently and all the links went to porn sites for a day or two. THAT is what I call a security breach.

 

You CANNOT remove the text from the biomes as the eggs all have the same sprite and some have identical descriptions. And that latter is part of the fun of it - getting stuck with ANOTHER flamingo...sad.gif

 

I cannot see that having letters on eggs is a security issue.

 

And basic web standards include accessibility for people less fortunate than you are. I'd rather not be blind and let a blind person be able to grab the CB golds, myself. Blind people have quite enough to contend with without being locked out of a game they could enjoy.

Edited by fuzzbucket

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My idea of basic web standards is that security > all else

You are not the person who decides web standards. http://www.w3.org/ decide web standards. Meaningful alternate text for accessibility is so profoundly basic that that is one of the first things they said way back in 1999. The AP doesn't have that, and much of the site could use some help on it too (such as the Teleport action page). The biomes do have meaningful text and so do the scrolls. That's why this suggestion would be so good for it--it covers more than just the AP. It would cover the Teleport page as well, anywhere else that egg images need meaningful text so that people can tell what they are with different than average vision.

 

Just curious - I am all in favour of it being accessible to blind people - so OK to screen readers - BUT - I know I am not very bright here - but OK - partially blind I can see (no pun intended) but how would a BLIND person know where to click after hearing the text read? (I really want to know this...)

 

There's a video of someone using a screen reader. ETA: If you use Firefox, you can add Fangs and it will show you what a screen reader would read. The biomes could be more screen reader friendly (at least based on what Fangs shows) but it's not nearly the mess the AP is.

 

(I managed, after many, many moons, to get my first CB Gold...caught it myself too! It can be done!)

Edited by Princess Artemis

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That still doesn't say why DC should encourage cheating.

 

In DC's case, "Meaningful alternate text" is a fancy name for "helping people write a script to auto refresh and click on any link with a picture whose alt text contains such and such a phrase"

 

The lack of the meaningful alternate text is what prevents scripting.

Edited by Layn

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That still doesn't say why DC should encourage cheating.

 

In DC's case, "Meaningful alternate text" is a fancy name for "helping people write a script to auto refresh and click on any link with a picture whose alt text contains such and such a phrase"

 

The lack of the meaningful alternate text is what prevents scripting.

This really is like saying that putting in handicapped buttons on doors is encouraging shoplifting.

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Not really, since the handicapped buttons on doors don't open them if the door is locked.

 

And they don't really make it any easier for a shoplifter to leave a store.

 

Now, cutting a giant hole in a wall, with no security cameras nearby... THAT would encourage shoplifting...

Edited by Layn

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I agree. There is no reason to not help players who are colorblind or using a screenreader just because some are afraid of cheating.

 

People already have ways to cheat.

 

We have ways to catch and stop them.

 

That's just how life is.

 

stoug - I feel like I found the gold faster with the words, as I am not good with abbreviations, though the test would work better if all the eggs weren't in the same spot.

Also, if you'll look at the spreadsheet, I added shorthand quite a while ago - longer than abbreviates but doesn't mean putting the whole word up, which is what I originally suggested.

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Not really, since the handicapped buttons on doors don't open them if the door is locked.

 

And they don't really make it any easier for a shoplifter to leave a store.

 

Now, cutting a giant hole in a wall, with no security cameras nearby... THAT would encourage shoplifting...

And adding letters to eggs is HARDLY comparable. Socky's right. People WILL cheat. Whatever the pages are like, they will find a way. This isn't going to make MORE people cheat, and it IS going to allow a load of new players to join in.

 

And I wouldn't put it past TJ to be able to outscript them.

 

I found the words easier too, though I PREFER the acyronyms. I know - I don't make sense. Never did...

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I agree. There is no reason to not help players who are colorblind or using a screenreader just because some are afraid of cheating.

 

People already have ways to cheat.

 

We have ways to catch and stop them.

 

That's just how life is.

 

stoug - I feel like I found the gold faster with the words, as I am not good with abbreviations, though the test would work better if all the eggs weren't in the same spot.

Also, if you'll look at the spreadsheet, I added shorthand quite a while ago - longer than abbreviates but doesn't mean putting the whole word up, which is what I originally suggested.

THANK YOU SOCK. Thank you so much.

 

Regarding the acronym v. letter thing...would it be too much trouble for T.J. to code both? It'd solve our problem nicely, I think.

Your shorthand...I'm biased. I like mine best. (Though I do agree with allowing 3-4 letter acronyms.)

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After the current pool is closed, can there be a second poll asking for acronyms versus shorthand (letters is too vague)? I feel like employing both would be impractical and a lot of work TJ. I wish we could do a pool on the dragcave site itself. That would be much more accurate measure of the population of Dragon Cave.

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THANK YOU SOCK. Thank you so much.

 

Regarding the acronym v. letter thing...would it be too much trouble for T.J. to code both? It'd solve our problem nicely, I think.

Your shorthand...I'm biased. I like mine best. (Though I do agree with allowing 3-4 letter acronyms.)

Shorthand is legit English, so I'd favor it over acronyms etc., simply because if someone knows shorthand already, it would be a breeze, and if they don't, it's not hard to learn to read.

 

I like Sock's shorthand best; it's the best of both worlds.

 

Also, re: comments on the Google doc, yes, you do need an acronym for NDs and GoNs, because despite how utterly rare (or impossible) they are to find in the AP, this is not just for the AP. This is for Teleport (which NDs certainly do spend time in!) and for the scroll (which NDs and GoNs spend time on), and for anywhere else on DC an egg (or hatchie, I'd argue, for screen readers) shows up.

 

I'd suggest ND and GoN for them, since ND is actually that dragon's most common accepted name (it has no official name) and GoN is what most people on the forum call Guardians of Nature.

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Shorthand is legit English, so I'd favor it over acronyms etc., simply because if someone knows shorthand already, it would be a breeze, and if they don't, it's not hard to learn to read.

 

I like Sock's shorthand best; it's the best of both worlds.

 

Also, re: comments on the Google doc, yes, you do need an acronym for NDs and GoNs, because despite how utterly rare (or impossible) they are to find in the AP, this is not just for the AP. This is for Teleport (which NDs certainly do spend time in!) and for the scroll (which NDs and GoNs spend time on), and for anywhere else on DC an egg (or hatchie, I'd argue, for screen readers) shows up.

 

I'd suggest ND and GoN for them, since ND is actually that dragon's most common accepted name (it has no official name) and GoN is what most people on the forum call Guardians of Nature.

The only problem is that they're too similar in some aspects. Here's the doc in case anyone lost it: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key...RYeUNvc0E#gid=0

Like...the dinos. It's still easier to catch them with images than with text because they're too similar. Anyway, I've added my alts to Sock's thing to the doc.

 

I definitely agree with you, PA, that we need GoNs and NDs to be added as well.

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