Refuse to Have Refusals!

[Pixxelation]

Please keep BSA suggestions/discussion in the appropriate section/threads. Thanks c:

Refusals suck. It's a plain and simple fact. It's a horrible feeling when, after finally acquiring two dragons of rare lineage, when those 10 little words utterly destroy your careful planning, trading, and ambitions. It feels like they always strike usually strike at the worst of times, when you have two dragons that would be perfect mates for each other, have irreplaceable lines, and they refuse to even go near each other.

 

So why have them? (In their current form, at least.)

 

Yes, they make some sense from a realistic point of view; sentient beings aren't going to want to mate with everyone and their cousin. However, it's important to remember that this is a game, and adding refusals into the mix just makes the game frustrating and adds nothing exciting to it. That is why I think it's time for us to refuse to allow refusals to be a part of the game for any longer. In addition, dragons have nearly infinite lifespans, according to site lore, and it is highly unlikely that a dragon won't completely change its personality over the course of 100+ years. It can happen with humans during their lifespans, so why not dragons during their immense ones?

 

Current suggestions:

• Remove refusals from the game entirely, save for breeding temporarily incompatible pairs (Holiday x Holiday out of season, Holiday x Discontinued Breed out of holiday season, or Discontinued Breed x Discontinued Breed). I'd suggest changing this by not having out-of-season holidays/discontinued breeds show up on out-of-season holidays' and discontinued breeds' breeding lists, or giving a different message, such as, "These two dragons cannot breed at this time," allowing the user to breed the dragons again without them having to wait a week.
• Make refusals no longer permanent, but something that has a higher chance of recurring than "no interest". Each time the pair is bred, the chance of a refusal would lower until they stop refusing. This would keep the mechanic, but make it possible to reverse, make more sense, and give the user some sense of hope. In addition, you wouldn't need to have a dragon only obtainable once a year as some proposed BSAs would require, or even a dragon separate from the pair at all, to overcome the refusal.
• Refusals would be like no interest, but last longer, say, 2 weeks to a month; the two dragons would not breed with each other within that time, but would still have the normal breeding cooldown.
• Action, as suggested and explained by Marrionetta:

  Suggestion: Action page addition.  "Re-familiarize."

   

  Objective: Potentially removes refused mating relationship.  User is shown a list of refused mates, and may select one to attempt the action on.

   

  Cooldown: 1 week. Can be performed in place of 'breed' action, if a user chooses.  Performing 'Re-familiarize' removes breed action for the week.

   

  Nerf: Set chance of success/failure, after performing action, user is informed of outcome by appropriate flavor text.

   

  Also bonus points if the action generates a picture of the two dragons with like a pile of meat and ugly wilted flowers laying between them. I have no idea what a dragon date would look like, but I imagine it's ridiculous.

Refusals are a mechanic that, although somewhat realistic, hurt the game and do nothing but frustrate the player. It's time for them to change or be retired from the site. Edited April 18, 2015 by PieMaster

[DragonLady86]

Because it's part of the game? Would it be better to get "no interest" forever and never actually get anything but always have that hope? This way you know they will never produce so the disappointment can be gotten over quickly instead of dragging it out for years. (I have a silver that looks like she's never really bred, but actually gave "no interest" every single weekfor nearly two years.)

[Pixxelation]

Because it's part of the game? Would it be better to get "no interest" forever and never actually get anything but always have that hope? This way you know they will never produce so the disappointment can be gotten over quickly instead of dragging it out for years. (I have a silver that looks like she's never really bred, but actually gave "no interest" every single weekfor nearly two years.)

Yes, it would be better. They still have the potential to breed, rather than never having the chance. Just because it's currently part of the game doesn't necessarily mean it's a mechanic that should be kept.

[KageSora]

I'd be okay with taking refuslas out except for dragons that will never be capable of breeding at the time (like holiday/holiday out of both season and whatnot).

[diaveborn]

Would it be better to get "no interest" forever and never actually get anything but always have that hope?

 

I have a silver that looks like she's never really bred, but actually gave "no interest" every single weekfor nearly two years.

Apparently even *with* refusals it's possible to never (for two years) get anything but always have that hope?

[DragonLady86]

Apparently even *with* refusals it's possible to never (for two years) get anything but always have that hope?

lol. I just meant I assume that would be what would happen for any dragons that would have refused if we took that out. And it was extremely frustrating finding a mate she would cooperate with (actually I eventually got a different silver) Bad enough it can happen, however rarely, now. It would be so much worse if any "refusal" pairing did this instead.

[Pippypip20]

I agree.mif anything, we should not have refusels. Though, we should have a couple of dragons that can't be bred. (Like out of season holidays, hollys,etc)

Well, I guess we gotta wait....

[diaveborn]

*nod* I assumed the suggestion was to take out refusals and not make breeding any different otherwise - i.e. not add in an increased chance of dragons showing no interest for years.

[Pixxelation]

lol. I just meant I assume that would be what would happen for any dragons that would have refused if we took that out. And it was extremely frustrating finding a mate she would cooperate with (actually I eventually got a different silver) Bad enough it can happen, however rarely, now. It would be so much worse if any "refusal" pairing did this instead.

That's entirely different and not at all what I am suggesting. Rares are going to be finicky breeders by nature. Removing refusals would not simply make things be "not interested" permanently; they'd have the normal chances that any other pair would without a chance of refusal.

[LibbyLishly]

So much support for this it's not even funny. Permanent refusals make absolutely no sense in the game. In real life, people often like or even fall in love with someone they once couldn't stand. "X and Y showed no interest" is perfectly sufficient to keep a breeding failure rate.

[dragongrrl]

While it is always frustrating to get a refusal, I would rather know and get it over with so I know to find a different mate, even if it's a rare. And I do know how frustrating that is! But, being stuck with endless "no interests" just seems like being stuck in an endless time loop.

 

I do think refusals serve a purpose. I therefore refuse to refuse refusals.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

IF TJ adds in a way for refusals to be reversed, then I don't think they need to be removed. DC's a pretty easy game, so having something a bit different (even if it's different in an annoying sense) spices it up a little. Of course, if refusals are not ever going to be reversible, I'd prefer we not have them--a bit of patience or work to fix a refusal is one thing, never being able to breed two dragons that are all but impossible to replace is another.

[DragonLady86]

That's entirely different and not at all what I am suggesting. Rares are going to be finicky breeders by nature. Removing refusals would not simply make things be "not interested" permanently; they'd have the normal chances that any other pair would without a chance of refusal.

I know that's not what you are suggesting. I'm saying that if a pair came up to refuse but can't, due to removal, the next step down is "no interest" and would most likely continue to give that result regardless of how many attempts are made.

[sharikak]

I know that's not what you are suggesting.  I'm saying that if a pair came up to refuse but can't, due to removal, the next step down is "no interest" and would most likely continue to give that result regardless of how many attempts are made.

That's not how probability works, actually. The original suggestion to remove refusals would allow a pair to have a nonzero chance of producing an egg, which means that the more attempts made, the more likely one of them will be a success.

 

Also, my opinion on this is pretty much what angelicdragonpuppy wrote

Edited June 1, 2014 by sharikak

[KrazyKarp]

Instead of totally wiping out refusals, I think this thread has a better solution.

[LibbyLishly]

Instead of totally wiping out refusals, I think this thread has a better solution.

Throw everything at the wall and see what sticks.

 

I'm supporting basically everything that will fix the refusal problem as long as it's not a one-shot chance at undoing a refusal.

[RainDear]

This is my opinion, just my opinion. I do not presume to speak for anyone else.

 

Yes, refusals are frustrating and aggravating and seem to happen when you really need for them not to. But, I have never played any game that didn't have some frustrating aggravating aspects. For this game refusal is one of those aspects. I for one, don't see any real reason for that to change.

[Cinnamin Draconna]

I do not want to 'undo' refusals, I want them to be gone, period. I find them annoying, irritating and downright maddening. They add nothing to the game but frustration, and it doesn't even make sense RPwise. Two dragons who didn't like each other wouldn't even attempt to breed in the first place, but the way the 'breed' mechanics work the refusal takes place AFTER the attempt, so it makes no sense at all.

 

If some dragons shouldn't breed, then they shouldn't show up in the breed list.

Drakes and Dragons can't breed.

Pygmies and Dragons can't breed.

2 heads and Dragons can't breed.

Holiday Dragons can't breed out of season.

Those type of refusals make sense because the species are incompatible to begin with. But unless you're giving dragons human minds and human sexual hangups, there is absolutely no reason for any given breed compatible pair to refuse.

 

Now if you want to start throwing in 'special circumstances' like holiday breeding on more types of dragons, then that is something that can be discussed. Maybe these new 'elemental types' will have an effect on breeding. If it makes sense, I can live with that. But refusals that have no reason other than the fact that it's coded in have never made sense to me.

Edited June 1, 2014 by Cinnamin Draconna

[Terces]

Honestly, if refusals were completely removed from the game tomorrow, I would not miss them in the least.

 

So I support this.

[Pixxelation]

This is my opinion, just my opinion. I do not presume to speak for anyone else.

 

Yes, refusals are frustrating and aggravating and seem to happen when you really need for them not to. But, I have never played any game that didn't have some frustrating aggravating aspects. For this game refusal is one of those aspects. I for one, don't see any real reason for that to change.

Yes, but there's a huge difference between something that is frustrating but necessary and something that doesn't really add anything to the game BUT aggravation and frustration.

[HeatherMarie]

It adds realism. And I'm sure plenty of people here will say that they'd rather have easier/less-frustrating game mechanics then a rather stupid spot of realism, but there you go.

 

Personally I don't care one way or another, but I DO think that Refusals are an understandable part of this game; Sometimes a pair just doesn't like each other. Full-stop. There's nothing you can do to make someone mate with someone they hate. That's how I see refusals.

[edwardelricfreak]

I'ma post this that I posted in another thread:

Dragons refuse not because they don't "get along" but because they don't think the dragon they refused was a suitable mate. This is a genetic thing as well as personal preference. It's why Neglecteds aren't breedable; it's not so much they aren't fertile (although that is a likely case) but because even if they are fertile, they have poor eggs/sperm that won't yield very healthy babies. That and their bodies are frail and might not last through a certain breed's mating habits.

 

And I also agree with Marie: it adds realism. I'd rather support the suggestions and BSAs to reset refusals than completely getting rid of them. It doesn't make sense to just get rid of them.

 

I mean, come on, do you want to breed with just any Average Joe? I certainly wouldn't, and from everything I've seen, most (if not all) animals wouldn't either. That's why there are mating seasons and picky-choosy females and elaborate displays and nest building and special parts about a certain animal's genitalia that try to get rid of the sperm from other males so THEY can pass on their genetics.

[cyradis4]

I'd rather the Reconcile BSA, but anything that'll let those hard-to-get dragons who keep refusing mates to breed would be a major plus.

 

C4.

[Hatsune Scratch]

It adds realism. And I'm sure plenty of people here will say that  they'd rather have easier/less-frustrating game mechanics then a rather stupid spot of realism, but there you go.

 

Personally I don't care one way or another, but I DO think that Refusals are an understandable part of this game; Sometimes a pair just doesn't like each other. Full-stop. There's nothing you can do to make someone mate with someone they hate. That's how I see refusals.

I don't see how a game always has to be realistic nowadays, I mean sure, it makes sense, but this is a game about breeding dragons, mythological creatures that were found in fairy tales and such.

Refusals can be annoying and such though, like he stated, I mean like, what if someone finally got 2 CB golds, and tried to breed them, but they refused. That would both suck a lot and since you can't trade adult dragons and all that time you wasted trying to find both of those dragons

Edited June 1, 2014 by Hatsune Scratch

[Pixxelation]

And even then, it's rather lousy realism; as has been stated, many married couples are people who used to be unable to tolerate each other. It's also realism that interferes with the game. I am not aware of any other adoptables site that has such a silly mechanic because all it does is anger players.